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Anyone feels the same way about the Deck composition in the Core Set?


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#1 Ravnos Phantom

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 06:42 AM

Man, the decks are crap.

I have the feeling that the decks in the Core Set were constructed with only the story in mind, but not playability.

Just say Aemon Targaryen in a deck without Nights Watch Characters.....



#2 Mokus

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 10:15 AM

 I think the preconstructed decks where build in a way that you get theme, and that you can play 4 players game where everyone has a chance to win. I diddn't try it with 4 players yet, so I don't know if that statement holds...



#3 Guest_Not In Sample_*

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 12:06 PM

I think they've been heavily constructed for 4 players games, or, at least, for casual games.

I got my Core set today (ohu yeah!!) and I've to say that the Core set itself has a "big" boardgame feeling...(do not misunderstand...I LIKE IT A LOT...)

In Joust, the decks are simply "non competitive"...Here's the difference between casual players and the others...The first ones just play the game as it is, without any insight (it's a choice, not a drawback...just to be clear)...

We usually analyze and sometimes put a lot of anger without thinkin' about the fact that the game has changed and that we're not the only kind of players that FFG worries about. We're the "old school" players (I'm a newbie in the game yes, but you know what I mean)...But someone is just lookin' for a game to have a good time with. For those players, Core set is just OK.

For me (and I guess for some of you) the good time will come when some CPs will be out and the new game will be more similar than now to the "old" game (more cards, more mechanics, more insight).

 

BTW, the Theme seems quite important in the Core Set, and I think it was needed, especially if you Focus on the fact that this is the chance for the community to get new players and to let them understand the game as soon as possible, as well as the flavour of the books, that's, IMHO, well explained by game mechanics and cards in general (the Unique card rules, different challenges, dominance, plot...)

 

Duh...I wrote a lot...

I quit..sorry

 

 



#4 Lars

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 12:29 PM

Ravnos Phantom said:

Just say Aemon Targaryen in a deck without Nights Watch Characters.....

 

he is a nights watch and can therefore kneel to save himself. He is a good card even with no othetr night watchs in the deck.



#5 ktom

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 02:00 PM

Lars said:

Ravnos Phantom said:

 

Just say Aemon Targaryen in a deck without Nights Watch Characters.....

 

 

 

he is a nights watch and can therefore kneel to save himself. He is a good card even with no othetr night watchs in the deck.

More to the point, he is a self-saver in a deck full of things that reduce claim one way or another.



#6 Old Ben

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 05:07 AM

ktom said:

Lars said:

 

Ravnos Phantom said:

 

Just say Aemon Targaryen in a deck without Nights Watch Characters.....

 

 

 

he is a nights watch and can therefore kneel to save himself. He is a good card even with no othetr night watchs in the deck.

 

 

More to the point, he is a self-saver in a deck full of things that reduce claim one way or another.

 

And finally the decks are designed for melee games and it´s a good thing that other decks have other nightwatch charachters, that way you could set up treaties in the melee format, just like: "If you help me to save my nightwatch charachter this turn, i will remove this negative attachment from your charachter next turn."  



#7 berto

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 11:26 AM

Ok, I got Core set and I built first two decks lanni and targ... build was quick... 5-10 mins, and I played with my son two times. No fun at all,

game is very boring and not interesting, no comaprison to old Agot... This is kind of very old card game called war... simple LOL... after two games

we looked to each other and laughed... Nothing to add... we switch then to .... you know to what :)

BTW: How terrible is this board software I can't even express... slow, does not work, strange editor, my god why not just simple IPB or vbulletin or

even PHPbb2? I would say technically is below note 6... which will cause that I will try to avoid writing here anything unless they will be no other way.

 



#8 Old Ben

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 11:29 PM

Berto your rating about the Core Set doesn´t seem to be evenhanded.

For one you played the decks against each other in a joust game and everyone that´s been around on the old message boards knows or should know that Core set was designed for melee games.

Second you randomly (?) picked up the two decks that are considered by most of teh community members as the best (Targ) and the worst (Lanni) deck. To make a fair statement you should also try to run the other decks in the box against each other. 

Third, the core set can be played right out of the box, however it´s crystal clear that the decks should be extended by the players (here´s no difference between LCG and CCG format), also you and i too are usually playing very disciplined constructed decks, so you can´t really compare a right off the box deck for beginners with the complexity of a die hard constructed deck. 

We played the core set a few weeks ago with 4 players (one relative new to the game) and it was a lot of fun with even chances for all players (and yeah i played Lannister and was a grumpy about that in fact). Granted it wasn´t the overall complexity of a standard melee game, but it was never meant that way and it was good for introducing a new player.

So i recommend to first play all the decks against each other, play a melee game and later extend the decks with some cards from the chapter packs.  I think you can come to enjoy the product in that way, if you decide to give it another chance.

 

  



#9 Ravnos Phantom

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 04:53 AM

Sure, the core set decks are all about "theme".

BUT I do miss the attachments in the Targaryen, the goldresources in Lannister and the military prowess in Stark (I haven´t played Baratheon yet).  In other words: For me the decks are not different and differentiated enough.

For my tastes the decks are too much crying "expand me" to be a board game. Computerwise the "boardgame" feels like an alpha test labeled "it´s a feature not a bug".

In general: I experienced the keywords and the tendency to lay down cards on the table for a permanent effect to be the most difficult things for new players (I drove a friend of mine to madness with a Greyjoy location deck).

I spend my time thinking about whether LCG in itself (not as a CCG) is more enjoyable than the AGOT Boardgame, Runebound, Descent or the other FFG boardgames. Currently I think it is not.



#10 berto

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 06:12 AM

Old Ben i hate you... :) You cuased me to write on this terrible board again :)

Returning to subject.. maybe I didn't tell this clearly, I built two decks using all LCG legal cards... I pick those two because I only stay with those two houses after last revelations. Maybe for newbies it's ok for profis not at all. Maybe in 1-2 years maybe never it will return to previous glory... So far only casual fun?? for newbies...

BTW I don;t believe you that you found this interesting...

 

 



#11 Kennon

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 07:21 AM

Ravnos Phantom said:

For my tastes the decks are too much crying "expand me" to be a board game. Computerwise the "boardgame" feels like an alpha test labeled "it´s a feature not a bug".

Hahahaha, like that damn memory leak in Firefox.



#12 armored_butterfly

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 11:11 AM

My gaming group started the LCG a week ago, we played our second 4 players game (each main faction being represented) today, and so far, so good, we a had a great time. We're all experienced ccg players, and so far, I think only LOTR ccg had this much excitement in multiplayer format. Most of us decided to buy a second core set, and some extra chapter packs, in order to build better decks, but as it stand, we're all pleased about the card pool. Each of our games ended up really close, so nobody felt his faction was weaker than the other. As for flavor, I think the core set is perfect as it is. I decided to start reading the books as soon as I decided to start the LCG, and I really don't feel out of place, not having read everything yet.

My only deception about the core set is the following: I was expecting more than just the 4 decks. Something like, 4 decks and extra cards, in order to easily customize those decks, without messing them up (ie: without having to destroy a deck in order to build another). I didn't mind that much having to buy a second core set, but I think it is still pricey, not to mention the uselessness of having a second board and tokens.

Anyhow, I believe strongly in the LCG format, but there is room for improvement.

 



#13 Old Ben

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 11:54 AM

berto said:

Old Ben i hate you... :) You cuased me to write on this terrible board again :)

Returning to subject.. maybe I didn't tell this clearly, I built two decks using all LCG legal cards... I pick those two because I only stay with those two houses after last revelations. Maybe for newbies it's ok for profis not at all. Maybe in 1-2 years maybe never it will return to previous glory... So far only casual fun?? for newbies...

BTW I don;t believe you that you found this interesting...

 

 

Pardon i misinterpreted your playing experience comment, i thought you used the right out of the box decks. And yes, i agree about the card pool: the more, the merrier. 

But the melee game we played was really interesting, it was in fact very interesting because the decks are just for casual gaming. A lot of melee games suffer from the fact that a few cards or a card combo can change the board situation to qiuickly, just think about Alayne Stone combo decks, Red Viper WED totally farming one player and winning the game within a round, good god´s own kiss bringing all good charachters back in one round. The out off the core set decks really made it necessary to talk about treaties with your opponents in certain game situations. In the end it felt like a card game with some typical tactical elements of a board game like diplomacy. So it was quite enjoyable on that level and i wouldn´t regret to play another core set game again, if i could do some minor changes in the Lanni deck of course. ;-) 

I will also try to build a LCG deck or two, however we will stick around playing with standard format (IT+) for at least another year, decks like Greyjoy "KIngs of winter" just look to promising. ;-)     



#14 Lars

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 04:23 AM

armored_butterfly said:

I didn't mind that much having to buy a second core set, but I think it is still pricey, not to mention the uselessness of having a second board and tokens.

The second board is useless i agree, the extra tokens don't hurt too much if you have a bunch of seperate games going.

Buying a second core set is necessary in my mind for building constructed decks (just for the events if nothing else), but i do not think it is that pricey. You get 4 decks at $10 a pop, thats actually cheaper then the Chapter packs.

Where i htik the issue lies is that I think most peole think that a game group of 4 will only need one. THis is true if you do not want to greatly expand on the base decks, which is fine if you just want to flesh out those decks with chapter pack cards (i think a great way to enjoy the casual aspects of the game). However for each of those 4 players in the game group to build a truely constructed deck they each at least need there own copy or 2 of the core set (needed to get into the more competative aspectgs of the game).

 

As an example one of my group is about to buy his 5th box (granted one is to be left at the sotre for new people to try out) and i am thinking about buying my 4th box.






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