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Watchful and Knockback as Marine combo


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#1 haslo

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 12:50 AM

I asked this in the old forums as well, but I guess nobody is going there anymore, so before anybody gets a chance to answer over there, here the question is again:

That knockback+watchful combo ... in one BGG file I found overpowered marine comboes, one of them involved Big Guy (gain knockback with fists) plus Lean and Mean (gain watchful while having a dodge order). The suggestion was then that his marine could just juggle monsters around himself, repeat ad nauseum.

So, in principle that would be compatible with the rules? The same would go for a monster that had both knockback and watchful, if there'd be one?

(Personally, I find this incredibly overpowered.)


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#2 BradH

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 01:40 AM

That knockback+watchful combo ... in one BGG file I found overpowered marine comboes, one of them involved Big Guy (gain knockback with fists) plus Lean and Mean (gain watchful while having a dodge order). The suggestion was then that his marine could just juggle monsters around himself, repeat ad nauseum.

That would ignore that the fist is far and away the weakest weapon, and even then has a 1/6 chance of missing outright.  To suggest it could be done ad nauseum and inflict damage seems rather optimistic.  Sure it, may punch a Trite to death, and the occasional Zombie/Imp, but as for the rest of them, there's not much chance of causing significant damage.  Factor in that the Marine has to have an active dodge order to activate the "Watchful" ability, and he's effectively reduced to 1 action per turn to pull off this "massive damage".  I don't think this is that overpowered, but I'd have to playtest it to say for sure. 

 

 

 

 

So, in principle that would be compatible with the rules? The same would go for a monster that had both knockback and watchful, if there'd be one?

Rules wise, it works.  There isn't a monster with those abilities, so I can't really say.  I think all skills/abilities are designed to be able to stack, though. 



#3 haslo

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 04:36 AM

The combo also involved the marine having Tactician, thus being able to do a regular advance action and have the dodge order anyway, but the miss chance and particularly the low damage kinda balance it indeed :) Thanks for your answer!


Imperials: 13 TIE Fighter, 5 TIE Advanced, 15 TIE Interceptor, 4 Slave I, 6 TIE Bomber, 5 Lambda Shuttle, 3 TIE Defender, 4 TIE Phantom

Rebels: 1 Tantive IV, 1 Rebel Transport, 7 X-Wing, 5 Y-Wing, 4 YT-1300, 6 A-Wing, 5 B-Wing, 5 HWK-290, 6 Z-95, 3 E-Wing


#4 Dam

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 08:39 PM

Just have Officer close by and the Marine fisting people  with Special Ops (if I remember the marine cards correctly +3 pips for each Red die using weapon).


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#5 Knuckles Eki

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 04:11 PM

Dam said:

Just have Officer close by and the Marine fisting people  with Special Ops (if I remember the marine cards correctly +3 pips for each Red die using weapon).

 

You're thinking of the card that gives +3 range on a yellow.

Spec Ops gives +2 pips on a red, not 3.

 

There's also only 1 red and 1 yellow dice



#6 Dam

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Posted 28 November 2008 - 08:26 PM

Officer: +1 range, +1 pip

Spec Ops: red-die weapons get +2 pips

 

1+2 = 3, no?


"A dirty mind is its own reward."


#7 Knuckles Eki

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 05:07 PM

Officer card gives +1 pip?... I must've mixed it up with another card



#8 Gallagen

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 09:13 PM

Yeh, officer gives +1 range and +1 damge to all marines within 3 spaces

woot!



#9 Amitloaf

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Posted 29 November 2008 - 10:01 PM

The thing is that if I remember correctly, the rules state that watchful only works on the other player's turn. So unless some monster just go into your watchful perimeter and activate your super-power, you can't really do anything with it. So as an invader i'd just shoot the marine and not get too close if he dodges. Or panic the bastard and punch him with a hell knight :D



#10 HëllRÆZØR

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 09:34 AM


The thing is that if I remember correctly, the rules state that watchful only works on the other player's turn.

No, there is no such restriction, as opposed to the guard order (see last page of the rules: Watchful / Guard).

But what happens if I attack multiple invaders with a rocket launcher (blast+knockback)? I guess the attacker chooses the order in which invaders are moved? And what if my marine has Tough Guy, a dodge order and the watchful ability, and attacks multiple invaders with a rocket launcher? Do I move the first invader to my marine, punch it until it's dead or I miss, and then I move the next invader next to my marine? Or which sequence do I follow then?



#11 Amitloaf

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Posted 30 November 2008 - 08:50 PM

You are right.

I think that you move them one by one. Anyway i don't see a way to interrupt this so i guess it doesn't matter that much.






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