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6 murder sheets?


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#1 Rabiddwarf

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 04:03 PM

 Ok, before I begin let me state that I love the concept of this game and will be buying it as soon as my game store gets it in. Even if it only has limited play value, I expect it will be worth it.

As for the limited play value, that is whatI wanted to comment/ask about. The game rules list among the contents: "6 Murder Sheets." The murder sheets appear to be some kind of mix between the GOO sheets of Arkham and the Dungeon Layouts in Descent. Each lists the location of the Murder, the available suspects for the murder, where each suspect is located and additional information.

I understand the game has several random card-draw mechanics involved, as well as a large portion of the game being the competition between the detectives, as well as the revelation of the conspiracy. However having only 6 murder cases available would seem to greatly diminish the replayability of the game. Are the Murder Sheets double-sided? Will we see "murder packs" released fot this game, similar to the small box expansions for Arkam, that can include 1-3 new mysteries as well as new suspects and specific event cards. If these small box expansions (can't really see a great need for a large box expansion, since the board is already massive) are in the works, when could we be likely to see them hit the shelves?

Overall I think this will be a great game, I'm just worried about how long I can keep people playing the game if they end up doing pretty much the same cases over and over again.

Well, have to wait for release.



#2 Jhamin

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 04:46 PM

I wouldn't worry too much about it.

In Arkham the random draw and the Old ones are all that changes from game to game.  The investigators always wanted the same result: Defeat the Old One.  Different Old Ones were vital to keeping things changing.

In this game there are what happens with the hunches, what direction the conspiracy takes, what plots each investigator is able to resolve, what global events come up, and what cards the investigators successfully hit each other with over the game. 

The 6 murder cards should not be taken as only six game states.



#3 ColtsFan76

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 05:24 PM

That was one of the things I was looking for at first as well.

Here are my thoughts.  This has Kevin's stamp on it.  So expansions can easily add new murders, suspects, and investigators quite easily.  You could even slip extra boards in I guess with a futuristic "train station" if need be to connect them - or use dropships to get around.  But we are getting way ahead of ourselves.

6 cases seems like a decent amount to keep you busy for a long time.  Keep in mind that these are basically variant set-ups and do not dictate who the suspects will be.  So when you add int he random factor of 6 possible suspects with 5 possible investigators along with all their plot cards, baggage and NCPs and you resolve all the possible event cards, it will lead to a very replayable game.  Any given case, anyone could be the murderer and any one else could easily be whacked.

After reading the rules, I am more comfortable with this being a game I would like to play.



#4 Rabiddwarf

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 06:06 PM

Again, I never said I would be passing on this game. I fully intend to purchase it as soon as possible.

Descent was my first FFG game, and upon experiencing the pure genius that is Kevin Wilson. Simply seeing his name on the box is enough to generate interest, if not an immediate demand to know more and possibly buy the game on sight. 

My concern is more rooted in the reactions and comments I will recieve from my local pool of players. I understand the beautiful multi-layered complexity of shifting goals and hazards. Well, as much as once can from just reading the rules and not yet playing, much less even seeing the game in full. But I can honestly say that I think I can only count on one player who may play this game without some form of appeasement or arm-twisting on my part.

The players who habitually gather at the watering hole I frequent are a diverse group. A group of hardcore D&D players who constantly desire that I run Descent. In fact, I have had to make up some house rules on the fly to accomidate 6 player vs me games because it has become so popular. A group of "traditional" board gamers, who play things like Settlers of Catan and such, in fact just this evening we played endless games of Dominion, a new deck building card game. And last there is a large group of Warhammer players who are willing to play some board games if I can cajole them away from the fantasy or 40k battlefields.

The beauty of Android, in my opinion, is that it kind of crosses all those boundaries. It appears to be a very deep game, with everything except direct combat, but still has multiple layers of strategic gameplay. Kind of reminds me of a version of 3D Chess from the old Star Trek series. You need to try and solve the conspiracy to earn VPs, you need to try and make sure that your hunch is the right one by "incriminating" your suspect and "clearing" or eliminating the competition's, you need to tame your inner demons lest you fall off the rails and lose valuable time and VPs, and lastly you need deal with other issues in the City both dealing with the murder and seperate from it while trying to stay one step ahead of your opponents.........wow, got myself all excited writing that :)

I REALLY WANT TO PLAY THIS GAME! RELEASE IT NOW!!! hehe

Ok, back to my point.

I'm afraid that players who do not worship at the altars of FFG and/or KW may look and see that there are only 5 different detectives, 6 suspects and 6 murders and come to a snap judgement that the game is not complex enough or a difficult enough mystery to devote 2-4 hours of play time to.

Hmmm......guess I'll have to threaten to never run Descent again until they try Android. (a couple of the other guys own Descent too, but the other players say they aren't as evil as me and don't make good overlords....the feat cards really threw me a wrinkle, but I will still crush them all! mwahahaha)

Oh well, sorry to babble so much, I had a point in there somewhere, I know it. I just hope I got it across without coming off too geeky :)

Thanks, Rabiddwarf

PS: Kevin, you are my Golden Idol.....What sacrifices must I lay on your altar to keep you producing these Awesome Games?!?!



#5 bioball

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 03:07 AM

RD,

How is your group with Arkham Horror? I think that if you have a hardcore D&D group then they will dig the RPG nature (is that Kevin's thing-- cramming RPGlite into boardgame?) of Android. The Warhammer 40k crowd might take a litte more convensing as do the Catan people, but if they all like Arkham then explain Android in those terms.



#6 Joram

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 05:18 AM

Rabiddwarf, you sure have a lot of faith in KWs designing skills to put Android in your top 5 before you've played it.



#7 tech7

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 05:31 AM

Joram said:

 

Rabiddwarf, you sure have a lot of faith in KWs designing skills to put Android in your top 5 before you've played it.

 

 

I can understand him, while Kevin Wilson's games are not my favourites FFG games, I like all of them a lot, be it the mechanics or the flavor. Therefore Android is alos a must-buy for me ;)



#8 Mike

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 07:01 AM

Rabiddwarf said:

The players who habitually gather at the watering hole I frequent are a diverse group. A group of hardcore D&D players who constantly desire that I run Descent. In fact, I have had to make up some house rules on the fly to accomidate 6 player vs me games because it has become so popular. A group of "traditional" board gamers, who play things like Settlers of Catan and such, in fact just this evening we played endless games of Dominion, a new deck building card game. And last there is a large group of Warhammer players who are willing to play some board games if I can cajole them away from the fantasy or 40k battlefields.

No offense, but that looks to me like you have to get yourself new and better friends. ;)



#9 ced1106

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 08:05 AM

@RD: Yeah, people like that are annoying. Who cares how many murder cases there are if you're not the one buying the game? In other words, if Android hits the table only once a month, they still get six plays they didn't have to pay for.

So reply that the game is "complex enough for at least one game". Play the game only once a month. Hopefully, sixth months later, they won't remember what the first murder mystery was about.

Also, I'm sure there will be fanmade components...!



#10 d.duguay

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 09:10 AM

I would also like to see a lot of replayability but I think we might see significant replayability only with expansions. Within the scope of the base game, this should have about the same replayability as AH. We need to see how different the detectives play from one another though. With all that is specific to them, they might actually be more distinct than AH investigators. If that's the case, then significant replayability might very well be within the base game. I guess we will know soon enough...



#11 Rabiddwarf

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 09:45 AM

bioball said:

RD,

How is your group with Arkham Horror? I think that if you have a hardcore D&D group then they will dig the RPG nature (is that Kevin's thing-- cramming RPGlite into boardgame?) of Android. The Warhammer 40k crowd might take a litte more convensing as do the Catan people, but if they all like Arkham then explain Android in those terms.

Arkham gets played occasionally. The only major complaint I hear about Arkham is that they prefer to play AGAINST me (ala Descent and/or D&D where I GM) than play with me against the game. I can usually still convince them to play Arkham about once a month, as long as we don't have a huge number of players, as it really slows the game down and foments boredom with the game for some players. Ah well, you can please all the people all the time.....and you can't beat them all with a broomstick either :) 

But since Android is not a Co-op game, I expect I can convince them to play it once a month at the very least. I'll push for more though.

 

Joram said:

Rabiddwarf, you sure have a lot of faith in KWs designing skills to put Android in your top 5 before you've played it. 

I liken it to my respect for Stephen King. When King puts out a new book, I buy it, before I read the dust jacket or look online for a synopsis or review. I just buy it. I may not always like what I get, but so far he has only disappointed me 3 or 4 times. Even when Mr King puts out a bad book, I still buy the new one on sight. Because I know I like him style and pacing, and chances are I will really like what he produces.

Well, I feel the same way about KW. When someone has a hand in creating multiple games that you readily enjoy, and then is willing to log into the forums and discuss his games with the players who have questions about them, its hard not to think that anything he has a hand in designing will appeal to you. Likely Kevin could put out a board game called "Cow Pies" that involved the raising of cattle and collecting their manure and selling to fertilizer companies and the first player neck deep in s**t is the winner, and I would still preorder the game. Because I have faith in his design style and favored play mechanics. If the game sucked balls, and was worse than Fear Factor:the Home Game,  I would still preorder the next game he had a hand in designing. Because the law of averages, as well as human nature, shows that not everything a person does is going to work everytime, but the good ones don't let one failure (or multiple failures) stop them. 

So, I guess thats a long winded way to say, I have it in my Top 5 because I believe in the ability and talent of KW. That and I'm a huge Blade Runner fan :)

 

Mike said:

No offense, but that looks to me like you have to get yourself new and better friends. ;)

No offense taken, because I wouldn't trade my friends for a huge pack of clones of me who played what I want when I want. I have a diverse group of friends who have a diverse range of interest and varying play styles. I appreciate that. If I didn't have these friends urging me to play Carcassone, Puerto Rico, and Ticket to Ride; or Wargammers taunting me and challenging me to build a 40k army so they can wipe the battlefield with me; or CCG/CMGers who get me to try the new WOW CMG, and find it to be one of the better strategic games I've encountered; or a group of players that I can walk in with a brand new game and say I want to try it out, and they will try it with me, and give honest opinions about the game; or a group of D&D players who decided a while back that we need a little break from D&D and I decide to buy this interesting board game for an evenings fun instead called Descent: Journeys in the Dark....

Yea, I could find new friends, but not sure I could find better.

RD

ps wish this forum engine had spell check...I'm too lazy to go back and check for typos :)



#12 J-Tech

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 11:22 AM

Well said Rabid. My gaming group is like a large extended family. There are certain mini-groups of people that prefer different games, so we play whatever the group wants to play at the time. Variety is the spice of life, and with my boardgame collection, that's a good thing. I like to mix it up with boardgames, TCG's , RPG's and minis too!






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