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Questions about the Assassin's Special Abilities


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#1 Chazaroo

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 08:37 AM

1.  Does the Assassin get to use his special ability against monsters that he drew as an adventure card? My understanding is that under the prior edition of Talisman, he could only use his special ability against characters he was attacking and against monster cards that were already face up at the beginning of the turn.

2.  Can he use his ability against the Sentinel?

Thanks



#2 Old Master

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 09:03 AM

Chazaroo said:

1.  Does the Assassin get to use his special ability against monsters that he drew as an adventure card? My understanding is that under the prior edition of Talisman, he could only use his special ability against characters he was attacking and against monster cards that were already face up at the beginning of the turn.

2.  Can he use his ability against the Sentinel?

Thanks

1. The way we play the assassin for 3rd edition was that any face up card was eligible for assassination as well as any character that he land on.

Any enemy that came from being draw from the deck from a space that was landed on was not eligible for the assassination ability and you may assassinate only once per turn, this will be use for 4er when the assassin will be played (nobody picked him yet in our game)

2. No, because we have always looked at the sentinel as something else than an enemy, monster or character. He is more like a contest and we never took any experience point for beating him but other players may do differently.

Cheer



#3 Dam

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 09:08 AM

Chazaroo said:

1.  Does the Assassin get to use his special ability against monsters that he drew as an adventure card? My understanding is that under the prior edition of Talisman, he could only use his special ability against characters he was attacking and against monster cards that were already face up at the beginning of the turn.

2.  Can he use his ability against the Sentinel?

Thanks

RAW, yes to both. I'll never let #1 fly though, it's just too bogus. We've house-ruled that to the "normal" version, can only Assassinate already face-up monsters (or when attacking other players).


"A dirty mind is its own reward."


#4 Velhart

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 11:47 AM

Assassin is very strong, but as John Goodenough said, there are more characters who have special abilities who are very good.

What about the Wizard Always having a spell when he cast his last one.

And so there are many others...



#5 Mr. Brogger

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 07:01 PM

The assassin special ability:

You may assassinate when you attack a

character or creature. You cannot

assassinate when you are attacked by

another character. When you assassinate,

battle takes place as normal except that

your victim may not roll a die to add to

his Strenght. If you win, you must force

the loser to lose 1 life; you cannot take an

Object or gold instead.

 

Battles

Battles occur when:

  1. A character encounters an Enemy - a monster, Dragon,
    Animal, or any creature whose Strength is given:

    or
  2. A character decides to attack another character, unless
    a special ability allows him to attack by phychic combat
    instead.

As I see it, the assassins ability do not state anything that should prevent him

to use his special ability against creatures he just draw or the sentinel etc.

And yes the assassin can be a very deadly and powerfull character, but remember

he only has this one ability.

 

Cheers

 



#6 Dam

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 07:50 PM

Playing it as written would be ridiculously boring: draw Adventure card, if monster, take as trophy, next monster, take as trophy. Good shot at killing Dragon with a Str 3 char (counting Fate). Every other monster is 50-50 or better. Even someone like Knight (effective Str 5) can have a bad roll against a lower Str Enemy and lose (though Armour probably means doesn't lose a life), but Assassin is immune, because Enemy doesn't even roll.


"A dirty mind is its own reward."


#7 Velhart

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 10:45 PM

The assassin may be strong, but it is his only ability

He is also evil and if you don't look out, you are death before you expect it. Better go to the mystic then



#8 Dam

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 11:56 PM

He doesn't need anything else, Kill, kill, kill, Talisman, head for the Crown. It's not like he's the only one with one ability (or more to the point, one usable ability).


"A dirty mind is its own reward."


#9 Velhart

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 12:56 AM

Dam said:

He doesn't need anything else, Kill, kill, kill, Talisman, head for the Crown. It's not like he's the only one with one ability (or more to the point, one usable ability).

It can be a little boring..

i take rather a other character like the Wizard, Prophetess, Swashbuckler , Druid etc than playing the Assassin.

But for the victory's,  the Assassin is a nr 1 character i think..

But it is also important that you have fun in the game

 



#10 Mr. Brogger

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 01:03 AM

Dam said:

He doesn't need anything else, Kill, kill, kill, Talisman, head for the Crown. It's not like he's the only one with one ability (or more to the point, one usable ability).

I will agree he can get annoying when he keeps draw creatures he can use he's ability on. But then again, that is the assassins triumf to succes. I have seen him a couble of times having problems to find enemies he could kill and then he is really bad.

In any ways I also see him as one of the most powerfull characters. And if a remake of him should turn up to give him some kind of disadvantage, then fine with me, but for now I play him as he is.

 

Cheer



#11 Velhart

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 01:11 AM

Mr. Brogger said:

Dam said:

 

He doesn't need anything else, Kill, kill, kill, Talisman, head for the Crown. It's not like he's the only one with one ability (or more to the point, one usable ability).

 

 

I will agree he can get annoying when he keeps draw creatures he can use he's ability on. But then again, that is the assassins triumf to succes. I have seen him a couble of times having problems to find enemies he could kill and then he is really bad.

In any ways I also see him as one of the most powerfull characters. And if a remake of him should turn up to give him some kind of disadvantage, then fine with me, but for now I play him as he is.

 

Cheer

Luckily, i am not the only one who stick to the rules of the Assassin

Let's go murder all strength creatures



#12 Lars Gnomish

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 07:12 AM

We always draw characters at random, and until I read this post, it hadn't occurred to me that we have yet to run the assassin in any of our games.

I like Old Master's idea that assassins can only use their special powers when a monster is already face-up on the board. It makes cognitive sense. In effect, when you draw a monster from the adventure deck, you are being attacked by the monster: You've accidentally wandered into the Dragon's hunting ground, for instance, and the dragon has decided to make you his lunch.

On the other hand, if the Dragon is already on the board, then you've chosen to enter the Dragon's hunting ground fully aware that the dragon is in the area. Thus, you are the aggressor/attacker. You could therefore try to sneak up on the sleeping dragon and thrust your sword into it's heart before it has a chance to respond.

Rule of Thumb: Any time your character (Character A) moves into a space occupied by a monster or another character (Character B), then your character (A) is the ATTACKER. Any time a monster or other character (B) moves into, or is placed upon, a space that your character (Character A) has already entered, your character (A) is the DEFENDER.

Since a standard turn requires you to move first, and then draw an adventure card, a monster on the adventure card is the ATTACKER and you are the DEFENDER.

( You might rule that objects or powers that let you see the next adventure card would give you the element of surprise.)



#13 Old Master

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 11:31 AM

This came up to our group after playing the assassin way back in 2nd edition, as we found out that he was too powerful and "assassinate" anything that moved.

After many discussion, we decide on the face up card, landing on character, and sentinel to better define and make the assassin a bit less powerful to everybody's satisfaction

He was a favorite until the chainsaw warrior and space marine made an apperance with timescape.

We did not like to make house rule and tried to stay away as much as possible from it, and banning character from the game was out of the question for us, but some exception stood out and assassin was one of them. And that's the way it's been played since then as it does not go against any official rules

As I mention before, other player can do differently and stick to every word in the rule book and that is fine, in the end the game and character being played should be enjoyable by everybody, not have the feeling we had early in 2nd edition that if somebody pick the assassin it was game over for everybody else

That is why also that I wish we do get some bigger and stronger characters in future expansion as to dillute the effect of some stronger character that are making some topics on this forum

Cheer



#14 lucky roller

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 05:19 PM

Lars Gnomish said:

We always draw characters at random, and until I read this post, it hadn't occurred to me that we have yet to run the assassin in any of our games.

I like Old Master's idea that assassins can only use their special powers when a monster is already face-up on the board. It makes cognitive sense. In effect, when you draw a monster from the adventure deck, you are being attacked by the monster: You've accidentally wandered into the Dragon's hunting ground, for instance, and the dragon has decided to make you his lunch.

On the other hand, if the Dragon is already on the board, then you've chosen to enter the Dragon's hunting ground fully aware that the dragon is in the area. Thus, you are the aggressor/attacker. You could therefore try to sneak up on the sleeping dragon and thrust your sword into it's heart before it has a chance to respond.

Rule of Thumb: Any time your character (Character A) moves into a space occupied by a monster or another character (Character B), then your character (A) is the ATTACKER. Any time a monster or other character (B) moves into, or is placed upon, a space that your character (Character A) has already entered, your character (A) is the DEFENDER.

Since a standard turn requires you to move first, and then draw an adventure card, a monster on the adventure card is the ATTACKER and you are the DEFENDER.

( You might rule that objects or powers that let you see the next adventure card would give you the element of surprise.)

I take it that this is a house rule of yours because I don't see this anywhere in the revised rules.



#15 Dam

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 07:42 PM

lucky roller said:

I take it that this is a house rule of yours because I don't see this anywhere in the revised rules.

Yeah, it's the same one I use. But according to RAW and it's been clarified by rules experts (check the Rules Questions section), Assassin can Assassinate all Str-creatures, regardless of whether they are face-up or he just drew them. Only time he can't Assassinate is when another char lands on him and attacks him.


"A dirty mind is its own reward."


#16 Dragofireheart

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 07:56 AM

Dam said:

lucky roller said:

 

I take it that this is a house rule of yours because I don't see this anywhere in the revised rules.

 

 

Yeah, it's the same one I use. But according to RAW and it's been clarified by rules experts (check the Rules Questions section), Assassin can Assassinate all Str-creatures, regardless of whether they are face-up or he just drew them. Only time he can't Assassinate is when another char lands on him and attacks him.

 

He also can't assassinate at the crown of command. This can makes or break games.



#17 JCHendee

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 05:09 PM

The present or drawn rule is as old as Talisman itself. As far back as 2E, the Assassin could only assassinate something already present on the board. This also meant / means he could not / cannot assassinate "creatures" designated by a board space or generated by a die roll (such as on the Cave card, etc.)  Most groups find this levels out the assassination ability appropriately. There is one complication that is not often discussed.

If the Assassin lands on a multi-draw space and must draw extra cards on top of ones already there... should an Enemy be drawn that has the same Order Number as one already on the space, then those cards are all treated as just drawn.  For example, if an Enemy-Monster is on the Ruins, and the assassin does not drawn another card of the same Order Number, it may assassinate when it comes time to face that Enemy-Monster.  If it does draw another Enemy of that same order number, then the Enemy-Monster combines with the newly drawn card, and the pair cannot be assassinated. 

This is of course a house rule where 4E® is concerned and has nothing to do with the official rules of that edition. The rule was developed as adapation of combat encounter rules between encountering Characters. When the Assassin lands on another Character, it may assassinate; when another Character lands on (encounters it), it may not assassinate.



#18 Persiatic

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 11:20 PM

My group have decided to compare Assasins skill to be more like Highlanders skill. It's very powerful early game when its harder to get stats, but later on you can beat most enemies anyway so it becomes pretty avrage.

 

So what we have done is just to add that each time Assasin uses his skill (and yes he can do it on drawn cards) he has to miss 1 turn. This have balanced out pretty well and we have played like this for more than a year now.

 

Try it out if have difficulities with Assasin beeing overpowered.



#19 JCHendee

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 02:49 AM

In a number of groups I've observed beyond my own, characters with "miss a turn" in an ability are avoided. The race and rush focus of the game makes them undesirable to those with little patient or just focused on the fastest win.  And it still doesn't solve the problem that the ability has little to do with killing by stealth/suprise.... not that Talisman bothers much with such issues.



#20 talismanamsilat

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 11:24 AM

For all those who feel that the Assassin is overpowered, see what you think of this idea as a house rule:

Regards,

Ell.

Ps. We allow Enemies to be taken as trophies when we play, as according to the RAW rules, but still use the 2nd ability I gave him!






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