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#1 Bazin

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 01:58 PM

While the Dark Heresy core book does do an excellent job of giving people fluff, I'd like some suggestions on other places to look for more!  Dark Heresy is my first experience with the WH40K universe and I find it quite interesting.

What would you suggest for other sources of inspiration/information about this universe?



#2 Snidesworth

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 02:01 PM

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page

 

It's an excellent source of information, though some of the fluff there is outdated.



#3 Luddite

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 09:08 PM

Well, aside from buying the 40k TT rules, and a bunch of codexes, or perhaps the BI 40K novels, or even, indeed the FFG main DH site, you could try these online resources (listed in no particular order):

http://www.darkreign40k.com/

http://www.scholapro...m.com/news.html

http://www.joachim-a...acemap/map.html

http://www.lvxmvndi.com./

http://www.newadvent...then/07256b.htm

http://dh40k.wikidot.com/start

http://www.tauonline...deptusAstartes/

http://www.malleus.d...do/Default.aspx

http://anargo-sector.net/explore/

http://www.cygnusx1.info/sm/

http://tvtropes.org/.../Warhammer40000

http://hem.spray.se/...ex_31_part1.pdf

http://hem.spray.se/...ex_31_part2.pdf

http://www.electric-... FluffBible.pdf

http://warhammer40k....of_the_Imperium

http://wh40k.lexican...ght_for_the_day

http://www.bolterand...f8e5351&act=idx

http://www.heresy-on...hread.php?t=937

http://www.philipsibbering.com/

http://z15.invisionf...usade/index.php

 



#4 Headhanger

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 09:10 PM

The Lexicanum is certainly a good place to start.

The Black Library has a metric bucket load of novels and graphic novels. Unfortunately I can't say that the Games Workshop site provides sufficient fluff anymore as it's turned into more of an online catalogue/store.

And if you have got money to burn then you could always turn to the table-top rule books. I haven't read the newest releases but I've still got some of the old and older codex books and rulebooks from Warhammer 40,000 that I refer to now and then. You might also want to look for the Inquisitor rulebook if you can get it.

Edit: Luddite got in there just before me. Damn this inferior warp drive! Also, Luddite, did you just dump your bookmarks folder into a forum post?



#5 Evilscary

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 09:22 PM

The Dan Abnett books Eisenhorn and the Ravenor series are great for DH background, seeing how DH is pretty much just 'Dan Abnett the RPG'.



#6 Luddite

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 09:33 PM

Headhanger said:

Edit: Luddite got in there just before me. Damn this inferior warp drive! Also, Luddite, did you just dump your bookmarks folder into a forum post?

Not all of it...

I got bored.

The Eisenhorn novels give one view of the Inquisition certainly.  I also think that an absolutely essential read is the Inquisitor rulebook, and more especially the Thorian Sourcebook by Gav Thorpe.  For me he nails the Inquisition perfectly (although others disagree).  But i'd suggest reading both 'types' of Inquisition and sorting out your own version is the way to go.

You'll find the Inquisitor stuff as free pdf downloads here:  http://www.games-wor...009&aId=4900004

 



#7 Nerd King

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 10:24 PM

Evilscary said:

The Dan Abnett books Eisenhorn and the Ravenor series are great for DH background, seeing how DH is pretty much just 'Dan Abnett the RPG'.

People always say that like it's a bad thing....



#8 Luddite

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 10:34 PM

Nerd King said:

Evilscary said:

 

The Dan Abnett books Eisenhorn and the Ravenor series are great for DH background, seeing how DH is pretty much just 'Dan Abnett the RPG'.

 

 

People always say that like it's a bad thing....

 

Aye.

I'm a TOTAL Abnett fan.  I think he's an excellent writer.  If you haven't already, every 40k gamer should read his work on the Durham Red graphic novels (basically, as far as i can see, he brings 40k to a different IP and its just amazing - what 40k could be!)

Durham Red - The Scarlet Cantos / the Vermin Stars / The Empty Suns  http://www.2000adrev...nt/view/343/54/

That said, i just don't like his view of the Inquisition; that is a structured, hierarchical society.  I'm much more of the opinion that Gav Thorpe got it right, although as pointed out in other discussions, the 'pure' Thorpian approach is probably unworkable since all human society is inherently structured - we're cognitively incapable of functioning otherwise...



#9 Snidesworth

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Posted 25 November 2008 - 11:39 PM

Another book worth reading is Scourge the Heretic by Sandy Mitchell. While Abnett's writings may have inspired a fair amount of Dark Heresy this book is literally written for it. It focuses on a group of acolytes (arbitrator, assassin, psyker, two guardsmen and a tech-priest, to be specific) seeking out heresy on Sepheris Secundus.



#10 N0-1_H3r3

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 01:39 AM

Snidesworth said:

Another book worth reading is Scourge the Heretic by Sandy Mitchell. While Abnett's writings may have inspired a fair amount of Dark Heresy this book is literally written for it. It focuses on a group of acolytes (arbitrator, assassin, psyker, two guardsmen and a tech-priest, to be specific) seeking out heresy on Sepheris Secundus.

There's a sequel to Scourge the Heretic due out next year as well, continuing where Scourge left off...


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#11 Snidesworth

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 01:53 AM

N0-1_H3r3 said:

 

There's a sequel to Scourge the Heretic due out next year as well, continuing where Scourge left off...

 

Good to hear. I hadn't heard word of a sequel until now and was afraid things would be left unfinished.



#12 Ikkaan

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 02:07 AM

Some people may argue that the original "inquisitors trilogy" (the one revolving around jaq draco and his grim band of adventurers) transport the feeling of the setting better than the (undisputedly good) dan abnett novels....



#13 Snidesworth

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 02:18 AM

I must say that I really, really do not rate Draco. Not read the next two books, but....eh. It's not quite Goto bad, but it was pretty poor.



#14 Ikkaan

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 02:23 AM

Snidesworth said:

I must say that I really, really do not rate Draco. Not read the next two books, but....eh. It's not quite Goto bad, but it was pretty poor.

Poor....it´s Ian Watson...a timeless piece of what 40k was....i won´t suggest to take it "like it´s all there is to know about 40k", but the basic idea is nicely shown. Cultists (Slaaneshi), Civilians, Space Marines, Abhumans, Traitors, Titans, Eldar...it got everything...



#15 Snidesworth

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 02:41 AM

It does, but the handling of it felt slightly ham-fisted and juvenile. The short stories he did in the various compilation books struck me as the same.



#16 Gaudy Scabbard

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 03:48 AM

For background fluff, I strongly recommend "The Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer" an excellent background book in the form of a handbook issued to all new recruits to the Imperial Guard. It's absolutely fantastic.

Full of  usefull survival tips for the rookie trooper along with rules and regulations and fantastic propaganda (genestealer claws are weak and puny, Eldar weaponry is old and ineffective and they attack from long range because they are cowards!). In the back is a whole load of prayers and litanies for every conceivable  occasion e.g.  the Litany of unjamming, the Litany of Reloading and the Litany of  Impending Death!

This is a background book that you can actually use in game and I intend to, especially as one of my players is playing a Guardsman.  The Primer will act as the source of all his xenos related information, God Emperor help him...



#17 Bazin

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 03:51 AM

Thanks for all the suggestions so far!

I know that I'm really not interested in getting anywhere near TT rulebooks if I can help it.  Basically, if I'm going to be looking at a book, it will have to be something that I can get at my local library.

The online resources also look to be very good.  I've got a lot of information to wade through now, its almost too much!

Thanks everyone.



#18 Kage2020

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 05:27 AM

Snidesworth said:

 

It does, but the handling of it felt slightly ham-fisted and juvenile. The short stories he did in the various compilation books struck me as the same.

 

 

Strange.  I use similar words to describe the greater majority of the Black Library novels, with the exception of the "A-list" novels, or such things as the first couple (no more) of Gaunt's Ghosts (though I remain hesitant in advancing these as A-list), Eisenhorn (but not really Ravenor), Farrer's novels, 13th Legion, Angels of Darkness, and the first couple of the Horus Heresy series.  All IMO, of course.  Beyond that, though?  Weak, sometimes ham-fisted, with plots that seem to be specifically slanted towards the adolescents that are the lifes blood of GW (despite the graphic descriptions of violence).

Personally I agree with Ikkaan—Watson gets more of the "feel" of the 40k universe than Abnett's Eisenhorn does, though Abnett gets more of a functional universe than many of the other authors.  Sure, by the end of Harlequin in the Inquisition War trilogy things are getting a bit sketchy, and by Chaos Child things are a bit too... abstract for many more used to the somewhat more visceral and obvious plots of the current stable of Black Library books.  Indeed, while a fan of Inquisitor/Draco and the earlier sections of Harlequin, I'm not a huge fan of the third part.

The Inquisition War trilogy also rises above all the other novels for one feature alone—something significant actually happens.  Even the Deus duology with its war in the Blood Angels doesn't really have wide ranging impact, nor does it really address the issues that are at the heart of the 40k universe.  While the 40k novels are often heroic fantasy, they are not really epic, which is something that the Inquisition War trilogy touches on.

Even the Horus Heresy novels, the closest to another epic tale in the 40k universe, started off well but now seem to be treading on the road of cash-cow literature.

Ah well.  As always "YMMV" (or the more accurate "YMWV").  I like my explorations of a universe to actually give me new information about the fundamentals of that universe, for there to be some form of, as Luddite refers to it, narrative progression rather than narrative homeostasis where nothing ever really changes.  And that's what you get from the majority of BL novels.  The Imperium doesn't change.  The Blood Angels might be riven by internecine conflict, but it all gets better in the end and the Blood Angels remain unchanged.

Seriously, beyond getting a few pages of interesting 'fluff' and, if it appeals to you for whatever reason, perhaps a "good" (to you) story, there sometimes feels that there is very little point to the novels... Sometimes.  (For example, I'll be buying Mechanicum just for the information on the Adeptus Mechanicus and their technologies, since what I have heard is very similar to a concept that I threw up a while back.  How did the author realise his own version/idea, how can that inform my own interpretation, etc.  I await to be pleasantly surprised in such a way that I can add it to my own personal A-list, but after Flight of the Eisenstein, Fulgrim, Legion, and Battle for the Abyss, I have my doubts.)

Kage



#19 Headhanger

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Posted 26 November 2008 - 09:29 PM

Amalathians, all of them!

Has anyone read the Shira Calpurnia novels?



#20 Snidesworth

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Posted 27 November 2008 - 12:36 AM

Are those the ones starring an arbitrator? I remember hearing about one: a murder mystery set on a space station full of astropaths. Apparently good, though I've not read it myself.






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