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Help with an alternative to a red dot sight


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#1 craigpearson81

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 03:08 AM

Hi all, ive been trying to come up with an alternative to the red dot laser sight because most of out acolytes have one now (which seems a little unreaslistic to me). I have decided not to purchase one for my Tech Priest for just that reason but got it me thinking...

I was thinking of asking my GM after our next session about the idea of a small device fitted to the weapon in question that fed an optical link directly into the tech priests brain showing where the weapon was aiming. This would not be a targetter persay but something more advanced than a red dot but with equal range. How does this sound? And how much would something like this be pitched at?



#2 Santiago

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 04:27 AM

What you describe is the Targeter after the Eratta 3.0, though it is grossly overpriced.



#3 Ferrus.Manus

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Posted 19 May 2009 - 12:18 PM

There's old question what "Red Dot Laser Sight" actually is - Red Dot Reflex Sight or Laser Sight . I personally think its reflex sight since it has no maximum range. I would suggest those rules:

Red Dot Reflex Sight - It reduces times required to aim by half (so you can aim to get +10 as Free Action and +20 as Half Action).

It's better because it works with Semi- and Full-automatic fire and it's better when used with accurate weapons, however it's downside is that it can give you maximal bonus of +20, while with current version of RDLS you can get +30 is you spend full action aiming, thus making it less useful when sniping since you usually can easily aim  (it also doesn't dive any bonus to inaccurate weapons, but I can't remember any Inaccurate weapons worth using anyway). I would say it's better than current version so I would increase it's cost (I would say 150 Thrones, Rare sounds good, or you can keep it limited to single shot, then it should be 50 Thrones, Scarce)

Laser Sight - Same effect as Red Dot Sight, except it only works if the target is within [you PBx5] meters from you, because if target is further away the dot becomes to small to actually help target (the GM should reduce the range in bad conditions like fog or rain or in red light and increase in dark conditions), however if you use Telescopic Sight (or any similar equipment) is has no maximal range unless there's fog/smoke/etc. which would . It can be mounted under the barrel so gun can have both Laser and another sight (note - it effects doesn't stack with Red Dot Reflex Sight).

Cost - 50 Thrones, Scarce.

 

Hey, what's tha-TAKE COVER!

I created this rule because while it's kinda complicated without it Laser Sight would be overpowered, especially then combined with Telescopic Sight (of course you forbid to use them together and/or don't allow it used in conjunction with Semi- or Full-auto). GM should use it only when Laser Sight's used by or against players of course.

Whenever you use laser sight target anyone who can see him/her/it and are withing their PerBx5 meters can take take Awareness test as Free action.

It's base difficulty is Very Hard (+30) with following modifiers:

You used half action to get +20 bonus - +10%

Opponent is in combat - +10%

He/she/it  can see you - +10%

It's dark - +10%

Target would normally be surprised by your shot - -10% (This doesn't apply if the player/opponent has Paranoia talent. HE IS ALWAYS WATCHING FOR SNIPERS. YOU WON'T SURPRISE HIM.)

You are not the target - +10%

If test successful the one who noticed it is no longer surprised (if they were in the first place) and can shout to alert everyone else, and if he was the target he also gets +10% (plus additional +10% for each 2 degrees of success) bonus to dodge the the shots from the gun noticed Laser Sight is attached until his next turn.

Note non thinking opponents as animals, non-combat servitors, daemons, etc. don't take this check while sapient xenos who don't know what exactly Laser Sight is should take Difficult (-10) Int test to figure what it is in time.

It can be Infra-red (100 Thrones, Scarce, it can also made from regular Laser with Diffcult (-10) Tech-use or Challenging (+0) Armourer skill check), making it visible only to those who have equipmen or natural ability to see infra-red light so it can give bonus only if you have said equipment but it doesn't let targets take Awereness check to notice the dot unless they also can see infrared light.



#4 v22TTC

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 04:03 PM

Yeah, that laser sight's such a no-brainer that I'm trying to come up with reasons to not take them: Clerics uncomfortable with that level of tech on their simple revolvers (who consider that a LS is hubristic and lacking in faith - the Emperor will guide the Faithful's bullets, after all...); and duellists and assassins who will consider them an affront to their profession and skill.

I've been toying with a 'counts as' for certain folks - since you can't buy accurised as an upgrade, the LS game-effect represents a more accurate version of a weapon (commensurately longer and heavier).  Needless to say, you can't buy a LS as well!  Those who prefer such duellist type weapons could be given an ornate, very long barrel pistol (counts as targeter in addition to LS) with blessed ammo, when the vulgar types are gushing over their newly acquired Bolt Pistols....



#5 Allrab

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Posted 07 July 2009 - 09:12 PM

Hello.

In the Gaunt's Ghost's books, sniper Larkin's scope has a targeter. This scope adjusts the scope/targeting based on an eye reading and will provide compensate for weather and wind. However Larkin is violating this scope by manually adjusting it with his tools. Seeing as Gaunt's Ghost's are in the beginning a stealth unit with camo cloaks they can not rely on red dot lasers as that would without doubt reveal their position.
Also in Brothers of the Snake, the Marine has a special targeter in his visor that with the right input distinguish between friend or foe, however if he is hit by something and the target is seen the visor will mark this target for the Marine.
As far as I understand based on this is that the targeter finds and marks the target, either through the visor or the scope. Red for Hostile, Green for Friendly or Yellow for Neutral. It could be an option for your acolytes.

Allrab



#6 Kurgan_cz

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:23 AM

I suggest using similar stuff that is used today to ease aiming...

1) Tritium gun sights or some equivalent - They really help, especially when you need to aim fast or weather conditions are poor (fog, poor light, storm etc.). Really like them. So far there are no rules for them in DH and can be treated in different ways. For example they can grant +5 to BS without aiming and +10 with aiming. Also they are not affected by range as they replace or improve original sights. They maintain their bonus even at range but also suffer the penalties. As this soud pretty good they could be availible to good or best quality weapons only.

2) Laser sight - This is Red-Dot Laser Sight in the rules. It is actually says "This is a laser sight...". I beleive it is pretty hard to track the point when shooting on SA or FA so the bonus for only single shots is pretty much justified. It should be limited to only standart range only if not used with a scope.

3) Red dot sight (open / closed / mini) - This is a Targeter in the rules. This significantly help with aiming with all firing modes. I can't say for sure, but I don't think it helps much at extreme ranges so I would probably discard the bonus for BS at this range. Of course you can get Red dot sight with magnification, but that is usually with 2-4x and that won't help much, or combine it with a demountable magnifier etc...not sure something like that exist in the 40k universe though.

4) Scope - In the rules as Telescopic sight, but I beleive it is more like a huge sniper scope with great magnification etc. Maybe you can include another smaller versions that are commonly used on assault rifles etc. and usually have fixed magnification usually aroud 4x. An example of this is Trijicon ACOG 4x32. I would grant this 'tactical' scope a +10 bonus for shooting at short range, standart range and longe range and make it availible for all basic and heavy weapons.

5) In one of the books, there is a different form of a targeter or scope. You can upload several images of allies in it and then shoot even into combat without difficulty, because it won't fire when the ally is visible in the sights. On the other hand you can upload only several images, so about your group and still hit ally soldiers, cops etc. It also doesn't give any bonus to BS. Don't know in which book it is right now.

 

Hope this helped at least a bit



#7 Umbranus

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:30 PM

In RT (not sure if core book or into the storm) there is a targeting monocle that comes in some variations and can for example work like a red dot.
Perhaps that could be interesting.



#8 PnPgamer

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 10:33 AM

Ferrus.Manus said:

I created this rule because while it's kinda complicated without it Laser Sight would be overpowered, especially then combined with Telescopic Sight (of course you forbid to use them together and/or don't allow it used in conjunction with Semi- or Full-auto). 

You can only have ONE sight on your weapon. Laser OR Telescope.



#9 Cymbel

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 10:39 AM

In a game I am, we use this for the red dot (treated as reflex sights)

Red Dot Sights may be used on single shot and semi-auto firing modes. The Holo Visor applies to a specially tuned laser sight (100 Thrones)

And then added

Laser Sight: +10 to BS while active, does not stack with any sight or aiming. Maximum range of effectiveness is 50m. If the target can see the dot, they get a one extra attempt to dodge in that round. They may only get one extra dodge per round in this way. The dodge bonus is negated if they can't see the dot or using an IR laser with Visor. Called shots get a +10 bonus against the normal penalty. Activating the Laser Sight is a free action.

Cost: 50 Thrones (200 Thrones for IR Version (Multi-Spectrum))

Weight: .3kg (.4kg for IR), Rarity: Scarce (Rare for IR)

To cover the actual laser sight, and aiming is iron sights, scope, etc. So you can have both on your gun, but only get a bonus from one.

Not sure what to use for my PC, who prefers the purity of aiming down iron sights, has a laser sight on her shotgun, but she fires that quickly and doesn't always turn the sight on.

One suggestion I heard for Tritium iron sights is to allow aiming in dark conditions or negate a penalty.

 



#10 IdOfEntity

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:49 AM

What about treating a RDLS as the same as Deadeye Shot?

Called shots inflict only a -10 penalty on called shots, instead of a -20.

If you have Deadeye Shot + Red Dot Laser Sight the penalty is reduced to -0.

If you have Sharpshooter you're capable enough that Red Dot Laser Sight doesn't make a lick of difference.



#11 comradeda

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 10:04 PM

My group just calls them Red Dot Sights, since the 'laser' part of the name seems silly. RDSes have lasers in them, though, and in Black Crusade opponents can notice the red dot on them, so… Yeah. Goes either way.



#12 Thebigjul

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:23 AM

As asked in the first post about a special device for smachine priest, look at the MIU or The weapon MIU, they will give you +10% and act has asked. The informations are loaded in the tech adept brain and communicated to their limbs and organs.



#13 segara82

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 10:38 PM

We have 4/5 sights to choose from:

Red-Dot Sight: a laserpointer on your gun, rules see DH Core Rulebook

Telescopic Sight: a true help for long distance shoots, rules see DH Core Rulebook

Targeter: helps with all firemodes, very expensive, rules see Inquisitors Handbook

Holo Visor: Wear a visor thats connected to your red-dot sight, but now uses an (for the human eye) invisible beam, rules see The Radical's Handbook

SPOOR Targeter: does not help you targeting, but prevents the weapon from being used against its user and other recognised … person. Rules see Ascension.

 

For your prolbem: Use Holo Visors. At least i as a GM let them be installed in helmets and masks for better concealment/easiness.


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