Jump to content



Photo

Force user advancement thoughts


  • Please log in to reply
125 replies to this topic

#21 yeti1069

yeti1069

    Member

  • Members
  • 366 posts

Posted 23 February 2014 - 10:45 AM

PS Remember that probably the defining characteristic of the Jedi in the films and the books is their ability to get out of impossible situations thanks to the Force. I don't know about your player, but for me that is my ultimate goal--not necessarily being able to "solve" every encounter, but being able to succeed no matter the odds or obstacles.

 

Just look at the barge scene in Return of the Jedi--Luke is unarmed, handcuffed, in the open, outnumbered at something like 15 to 1, and is separated from his adversary (and their biggest guns) by quite a gap...and yet he manages to pull out the win anyway. In the EU, there's a whole lot more of this kind of action.

 

For instance, in Specter of the Past...

Spoiler

 

At some point, even a character in this system is going to be getting to that level of ability. The balance comes from Force dice being unreliable, from the players/characters themselves having to temper their usage both to avoid falling to the Dark Side and to avoid too much Imperial attention, and then from that inevitable Imperial attention causing them some real problems, which may include killing them or their allies/loved ones.


Edited by yeti1069, 23 February 2014 - 10:47 AM.


#22 R2builder

R2builder

    Member

  • Members
  • 373 posts

Posted 23 February 2014 - 11:05 AM

Yeah, I have to brush up on my rules lawyering for this one I think. I don't think we are using the rules right.

Please check out our group and leave comments at: https://edge-of-the-...dianportal.com/


#23 yeti1069

yeti1069

    Member

  • Members
  • 366 posts

Posted 23 February 2014 - 11:55 AM

Yeah, I have to brush up on my rules lawyering for this one I think. I don't think we are using the rules right.

Nothing to be ashamed of, and no surprise there. I'm a pretty good rules lawyer, and I'm constantly getting stuff wrong, and of the stuff I get right, another rules-lawyery friend of mine in the group gets it wrong half the time.

 

The books are laid out like ****, with rules scattered all over the place, direct references missing, and important bits buried in paragraphs. I'm enjoying the game, but I'm constantly wishing FFG would hire someone to reorganize the whole thing. It boggles the mind that they could do such a poor job with this when there are literally dozens of RPG rulebooks out there with better layout.

 

On top of that, some things aren't worded very clearly, and there are a lot of exceptions, or rules that stand alone.


  • UHF, Liloki, FreeXenon and 2 others like this

#24 R2builder

R2builder

    Member

  • Members
  • 373 posts

Posted 23 February 2014 - 12:03 PM

Yeah... I think this is the best Star Wars RPG I have ran, but the book does leave a lot to be desired in the layout. Fantastic product, just bad execution.

Please check out our group and leave comments at: https://edge-of-the-...dianportal.com/


#25 yeti1069

yeti1069

    Member

  • Members
  • 366 posts

Posted 23 February 2014 - 12:18 PM

Yeah... I think this is the best Star Wars RPG I have ran, but the book does leave a lot to be desired in the layout. Fantastic product, just bad execution.

I haven't played enough yet to be head-over-heels for this (only 3 game sessions), but I'm enjoying it. I like Saga Edition, but I started gaming with D&D 3.x, so that fit for me. Still, if my group can adapt fully to the narrative focus of this system, and pulla way from rigidly codified combat (mostly, dealing without minis and a battle mat, and keeping things flowing) a bit, I think I'll really enjoy this.

 

Also, I suspect that it's going to be a long time, at least relative to the other characters in the group, before I feel like my character is meeting my expectations. Being a Force user is very expensive XP-wise. If the guy in your game has felt useless some of the time, he should see me in action: I've got nothing that really works in combat so far, and can hardly do much outside of combat (lessened further by my character's reluctance to reveal himself as a Jedi either to his shipmates or anyone else just yet). The most impressive things I've done so far were putting out a fire on an enemy by using Move to activate a "sprinkler" system (the fire was started by a teammate with a flamethrower) to relieve him of his suffering, and succeeding on 2 daunting skill checks, first to Charm a Hutt, then to see through a Deception from some an assassin droid.



#26 Tanarri

Tanarri

    Member

  • Members
  • 166 posts

Posted 23 February 2014 - 12:44 PM

 

Yeah... I think this is the best Star Wars RPG I have ran, but the book does leave a lot to be desired in the layout. Fantastic product, just bad execution.

I haven't played enough yet to be head-over-heels for this (only 3 game sessions), but I'm enjoying it. I like Saga Edition, but I started gaming with D&D 3.x, so that fit for me. Still, if my group can adapt fully to the narrative focus of this system, and pulla way from rigidly codified combat (mostly, dealing without minis and a battle mat, and keeping things flowing) a bit, I think I'll really enjoy this.

 

Also, I suspect that it's going to be a long time, at least relative to the other characters in the group, before I feel like my character is meeting my expectations. Being a Force user is very expensive XP-wise. If the guy in your game has felt useless some of the time, he should see me in action: I've got nothing that really works in combat so far, and can hardly do much outside of combat (lessened further by my character's reluctance to reveal himself as a Jedi either to his shipmates or anyone else just yet). The most impressive things I've done so far were putting out a fire on an enemy by using Move to activate a "sprinkler" system (the fire was started by a teammate with a flamethrower) to relieve him of his suffering, and succeeding on 2 daunting skill checks, first to Charm a Hutt, then to see through a Deception from some an assassin droid.

 

 

Really EotE really isn't meant for full fledged force users neither is AoR for that matter. Its meant for the pilot that is among the best because he has a touch of the force but doesn't really know it or the the explorer that always happens to avoid the predators on a planet. Its meant for little touches of the force not for being vader, obi wan kenobi, or luke in return of the jedi but you could be luke before he goes to dagobah. If you want to play that heavy of force use you are going to have to wait for force and destiny.. I also believe that's why force powers are so expensive is so that you don't just try and build such a character.,


  • progressions, Shamrock and MosesofWar like this

#27 Shamrock

Shamrock

    Member

  • Members
  • 304 posts

Posted 23 February 2014 - 01:06 PM

Thanks, you bring up some good points. But the player insists that he uses the Force without moving...
So that can leave no trace of him being a Force user. I guess in the EU force users can do this. He brought up Star Killer sitting and moving stuff? I'm not big into the EU as I feel it is written by hacks, and fellow GMs trying to showcase of their characters. And there is so much inconsistency in it. I cannot think one one time in the Movies when a Force User does not use a gesture to use the Force. He argued that is was just for the movie audience. And that if I was going to not follow "canon" then he would not have played a Force User. He also said that he as a player never made the motions of using the force like in the movies. I got a kick out of that. My players also don't hold up their hands like they are shooting a gun, (ok,well sometimes), or put their hands on imaginary starships controls and show they are piloting.

2 things.... first to address this.  Regardless on if he moved or not, people are not stupid. Things don't just "float".   What do you have? a group of 5?  anyway, someone in that group is using the force.  An inquisitor would get to the bottom of this right quick.  capture the weakest member of the group and start torturing them.   if your group is actually composed of "scum and villainy", it won't take long for said person to start dime-dropping.  Self-preservation is a powerful motivator.

I'm kinda a force stickler in my campaign, as well.  I don't allow anything beyond basic force powers, without "training".  This has led to several adventures in attempts to track down lost holocrons, or steal them from high powered beings. 

In addition and a large part of my "force stickler", is the standing bounty.  50K for information that leads to the capture of a force user, 100K + for their head.  As my group is also composed of "scum", and a bounty hunter... in game they have turned on the force using character and brought his head in for ship repair money.   Took that player 3 characters to figure out that force abilities had to be kept on the down low, and I didn't come out to be the scrooge in it.  You have the prefect group for the players to police themselves.  Dry up the funds for a bit, and put the wanted signs out. As a side note: said character is still playing a force using character (3rd toon), however, it's kept to the barest of minimums.


Be well,

 

Sham


#28 progressions

progressions

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,575 posts

Posted 23 February 2014 - 01:14 PM

R2builder, never let players compel or coerce you into a ruling you don't agree with because of some EU knowledge the player has which you don't.

 

Starkiller and The Force Unleashed doesn't even have to have occurred in your game world. I've never played it, so in my world it doesn't necessarily exist. I'm a fan of the Clone Wars, so I put in characters and events from the TV show as reference points in our games. 

 

However if I got something wrong or somebody remembered a detail from an episode that would mess up the plans for the adventure, or would lead to the player doing something I don't agree they should be able to do, I can put my foot down and use GM's prerogative not to allow such a thing.


  • Liloki, whafrog, kaosoe and 1 other like this

EOTE Styles and Dice Symbols for Obsidian Portal

Our group's EOTE Obsidian Portal: Explorers on the Edge


#29 Ahrimon

Ahrimon

    Member

  • Members
  • 234 posts

Posted 23 February 2014 - 04:21 PM

 Either I will have to come on board and let him do, or as Ahrimon talks about in his thread, Forcing My Vision on this player and character. So do I have the blinders on? And just being a Summer's Eve?

Oi.  I've done everything but state directly that the thread is in no way associated with your game and is based on just threads on the forums.  So take off you hoser!  :P

 

Now in yesterday's adventure they raided a small imperial comm station where a imperial bounty hunter took his prey. Well, after being railroaded into fighting, they blasted the few imps, and met the hunter. The force player had lifted him up and turned him around so he couldn't shoot the group. After thermal detonator negotiations, they all agreed to leave in peace. The hunter even made a derogatory Jedi comment to him. They let him walk out, but blew up the station and 20 imperial comm guys in it to cover their tracks!? So yeah, I'm thinking some more obligation is coming.
I am hoping to have the player come in line with my ideas of Rebellion era Force Users, without being a total d$&k. I want to have fun at my table, tell some (hopefully) good stories, have exciting cinematic fights, and just try to have a good time. Having a guy that does nothing but move object is not really very epic to me...

I would just like to clarify, that while we were forced into combat, and yes that could be considered railroady, but sometimes there really just aren't any options.  I fully expected that things would devolve to combat, but I had at least hoped to get inside before things started.  No matter what we tried the guards would budge.  To expand the scene, we were trying to rescue someone taken by bounty hunters, unfortunately he was delivered to an imperial communications post.  Our bounty hunter wasn't there, so we sort of gambled and used his credentials to turn over a "suspected force user" as our ruse to get inside.  Unfortunately the guards weren't having it and didn't give us any options other than turn our force user over.  I was set to make a run for it, when he went with them.  What followed was one of the most hilariously role-played combats where while we were clearly outmatched we ended up succeeding. 

 

The force user pulled the gun from one of them and demanded they surrender.  They didn't and fired on him on stun.  Then while screaming "lookout he's loose" pretended to shoot at him on stun and hit a guard.  The Politico used his scathing tirade to hit the remaining soldiers.  His tirade basically being, "Oh god, save me, he's loose".  After the force user ran back behind us to the ramp of the ship.  I started acting (badly) like I was mind controlled and shot at the guards again.  The Politico continued his tirade as he ran to the middle of the guards.  A few more hijinks insured and we ended up defeating the guards.

 

Our game hasn't been going on very long, but our force user has only used his move abilities to drastically effect a combat twice.  The first time levitating a cyber-nexu while we took care of the remaining two, and the second time for this mercenary.  Both times, from the players side of this saved our bacon.

 

Yeah, I have to brush up on my rules lawyering for this one I think. I don't think we are using the rules right.

If, as others have said that he needs two light side pips to activate a silhouette one move, then this will greatly reduce effectiveness.  While being able to grab a gun or move someone without a skill check might seem anti-climactic or overpowered it is balanced by the force die.  I don't know what a good compromise would be.  I've purposely stayed away from the force rules and don't know how they work very well.

 

As for his use of the dark side point.  He did that for the first time in the last game.  He role-played the consequences very well, playing his character as angry and quick tempered for a while until the GM told him that he had rested and was no longer under the effects.  So, while I can't claim that he is or isn't trying powergame the grey aspect, he did roleplay the consequences of his first darkside pip well in my opinion.


  • Liloki, whafrog and kaosoe like this

#30 Shakespearian_Soldier

Shakespearian_Soldier

    Member

  • Members
  • 947 posts

Posted 23 February 2014 - 04:32 PM

Might be worth letting him spend XP, but saying that he needs a teacher in order to learn new Powers - this way, he can develop what he has, but would understandably need help to learn more tricks.

 

I'd also go the "Force users are hunted fervently" route - and if he keeps doing it, and keeps escaping, up the ante until either he, or the other characters, point out what an arse he's being. There's nothing wrong with using your Powers to help - but there is something wrong with doing it at a rate that damages the enjoyment of the game for others, including the GM.


  • EldritchFire likes this

"Beg for your life. No, doing so won't save you - but it will make your death more amusing to watch."
- Vago the Hutt; Star Wars: Edge of the Empire


#31 Bipolar Potter

Bipolar Potter

    Member

  • Members
  • 62 posts

Posted 23 February 2014 - 05:24 PM

Im pretty sure Starkiller used movements most of the times in the games, and i cant think of any EU character that didnt use movements at all. Force users are well, connected to the force, and im sure you can find some lore that shows that using movements makes it easier to control. As far as limitations, i dont think its fair to limit him on xp as far as the book says that these trees represent what they can learn on their own. If he's dead set on this, stand in the open, do nothing but chunk ppl around mentality, do two things: A. Have some enemies focus fire the chump standing out in the open. or B. Make him use more pips to use his powers with no movements. Less connection means more effort into using the power. if hes sitting around doing nothing half the time, hell get real pissy when hes doing only doing things a 1/3rd of the time. Also, is this guy sure he knows what game they are playing? One problem i see people having on these boards, and in the game im running myself, is that people want to play Jedi using EotE or even AoR(dont have the rules so dont know the deets on the force usage covered in there). Thats not what EotE or AoR is about. The book kinda states that pretty well. If you as a GM are fine running that or making houserules go all out, but if they are causing problems explain to them (politely) that they are playing the wrong game and need to correct their **** or gtfo.



#32 Sylrae

Sylrae

    Member

  • Members
  • 75 posts

Posted 23 February 2014 - 07:56 PM

Hmm.

As for light and dark actions/thoughts canceling, that's a thing. There a handful of force organizations that focus on walking that line. There's a few that say there are no dark side powers, it's just the intentions that matter. There's a light side version of the lightning power that is a nonlethal variant. One organization exiles is members of they go light or dark, until they have meditated and returned to balance.

Someone made a thread about playing a revanite and the suggestion was to allow him to choose before rolling force dice if he was tapping into light side or dark side powers, and t talking how he uses his powers as he goes, essentially giving him light and dark side points based on whether he does good or bad actions and at the end of the game, excess points become light or dark side obligation he can work off and rebalance. If he doesn't, he becomes a light or dark side user.

As others have mentioned, the time period may also make him hunted. Play that up.

And I agree with the posters here. Using the force with no outward signs would be difficult, and would be less effective. I would consider giving him a setback site to not move, and another to conceal it in his face /posture.

Though I think the force move focused character could also be fun, this guy is going to attract loss of unwanted attention.

#33 whafrog

whafrog

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,598 posts

Posted 23 February 2014 - 10:13 PM

This whole "not waving your hands so you can't be detected" is missing one of the biggest features of the SW universe:  that use of the Force causes ripples that can be detected by other Force Sensitives.  If the player is using the Force, hand-waving or not, there will be a "disturbance".  It's not just a matter of things mysteriously going flying and the event being caught on video.

 

It's not very well defined in canon, which means it's completely wide open how the GM determines the effect.  My general interpretation is that life and death and all that cause constant ripples, but they mostly cancel each other out as noise.  Big life/death events cause big ripples (Alderaan).  Any use of the Force outside normal life/death also causes big ripples, and the more they mess with destiny or fate, the bigger they are.  This is what Obi-wan sensed in E1...the constant slow nudging of the Force to the dark side by Palpatine.  It was "elsewhere, elusive", but still detectable.

 

In other words, even the smallest use of the Force can have a big impact on destiny or fate.  For instance, maybe that bounty hunter wasn't supposed to be turned around like that so he couldn't shoot.  Therefore, the player is always at risk of being detected.


  • Eruletho, Liloki, MosesofWar and 2 others like this

#34 Tanarri

Tanarri

    Member

  • Members
  • 166 posts

Posted 23 February 2014 - 11:34 PM

I have a few more thoughts: First is while I would allow the constant throwing of crates and boulders or whatever the second the force is affecting a person that character NPC or PC would get a roll. In the instance of NPCs being thrown off a bridge each one would get a coordination check to stay on. With the grenades a perception check to notice the pins falling out. As for the guy lifted into the air and turned around I don't know that he would necessarily get a roll to prevent it but just because he has to look over his shoulder to see you and would be at an odd angle to shoot doesn't mean he still can't shoot it would just be harder.

 

Second excessive use of the force causes strain I can't remember for sure if its a RAW or if it was just one of the vaguely mentioned things.

 

Third Luke does manage to not move while levitating objects on Dagobah however you can tell he is intensely concentrating and if I remember right he lost that same concentration really easily. I am not sure you could concentrate that hard in the middle of a fight and even so a guy sitting in the middle of a battle not moving with a look of intense concentration is going to get blasted(even if its just a shot that missed someone else depending on die rolls). While its true that most of the galaxy thinks of jedi as just stories now the imperials are actively hunting any one even suspected of maybe being capable of using the force, as are many bounty hunters for the reward. If he isn't using his powers against imperials or bounty hunters then I would give any one with just about any knowledge skill a shot at a "hey I remember reading somewhere that there were people capable of moving things around with their mind" check. Because really no one stands in the middle of a fight doing nothing so that is going to draw alot of suspicion especially when weird stuff starts happening.



#35 SlickAWG

SlickAWG

    Member

  • Members
  • 15 posts

Posted 24 February 2014 - 01:18 AM

 

Thanks, you bring up some good points. But the player insists that he uses the Force without moving...
So that can leave no trace of him being a Force user. I guess in the EU force users can do this. He brought up Star Killer sitting and moving stuff? I'm not big into the EU as I feel it is written by hacks, and fellow GMs trying to showcase of their characters. And there is so much inconsistency in it. I cannot think one one time in the Movies when a Force User does not use a gesture to use the Force. He argued that is was just for the movie audience. And that if I was going to not follow "canon" then he would not have played a Force User. He also said that he as a player never made the motions of using the force like in the movies. I got a kick out of that. My players also don't hold up their hands like they are shooting a gun, (ok,well sometimes), or put their hands on imaginary starships controls and show they are piloting.

2 things.... first to address this.  Regardless on if he moved or not, people are not stupid. Things don't just "float".   What do you have? a group of 5?  anyway, someone in that group is using the force.  An inquisitor would get to the bottom of this right quick.  capture the weakest member of the group and start torturing them.   if your group is actually composed of "scum and villainy", it won't take long for said person to start dime-dropping.  Self-preservation is a powerful motivator.

I'm kinda a force stickler in my campaign, as well.  I don't allow anything beyond basic force powers, without "training".  This has led to several adventures in attempts to track down lost holocrons, or steal them from high powered beings. 

In addition and a large part of my "force stickler", is the standing bounty.  50K for information that leads to the capture of a force user, 100K + for their head.  As my group is also composed of "scum", and a bounty hunter... in game they have turned on the force using character and brought his head in for ship repair money.   Took that player 3 characters to figure out that force abilities had to be kept on the down low, and I didn't come out to be the scrooge in it.  You have the prefect group for the players to police themselves.  Dry up the funds for a bit, and put the wanted signs out. As a side note: said character is still playing a force using character (3rd toon), however, it's kept to the barest of minimums.

 

This. If your Force user is just standing still and never giving any sign of action, you can always have a survivor of the battle mistake someone else in the party as the Force user. Now suddenly some poor doctor or mechanic is being hunted down at every turn, and it's all because someone couldn't be subtle about their abilities.

 

I'm definitely not anti-Force (I play a Politico/FSE), but power-gaming is power-gaming. Like someone else suggested, flip a Dark side point and upgrade the difficulty of those Discipline checks whenever possible. Put your players in heavily populated areas, where someone is bound to notice the guy who just stood there while things flew through the air. Get the party separated, so the Force user can't hide behind teammates with guns. Or run scenarios with little-to-no combat, perhaps your player will find himself bored and realize that branching out will make him more useful.

 

And if that fails, there's always death sticks.


Edited by SlickAWG, 24 February 2014 - 01:22 AM.


#36 Shamrock

Shamrock

    Member

  • Members
  • 304 posts

Posted 24 February 2014 - 01:24 AM

I have a few more thoughts: First is while I would allow the constant throwing of crates and boulders or whatever the second the force is affecting a person that character NPC or PC would get a roll. In the instance of NPCs being thrown off a bridge each one would get a coordination check to stay on......

This GM seems to be interpreting the rules rather loosely.  

 

The move power is for inanimate objects, you can't move people.  You cant toss, them, etc..  In addition even if they could move a person, figure 150 lbs.. Do you have any idea how much "force" that person would have to have?  For a group that hasn't been "playing that long", said person should have nowhere near the amount of xp needed for that. 

You'd require a second force point to go beyond the lift, not to mention the increased strength, range, control, etc...  I believe the first move is a 5 lb limit (for some reason that's stuck in my head, but don't quote me on this). 

While flicking the guns out of someone's hand is more plausible, that person would have to have a ridiculously low brawn, like a 1, considering his gun is out an aimed.  That means he is holding it taut, meaning that 5 pound push you gave it, at most is going to throw the aim off.  If the gun were holstered you could pop it out of the holster and move it, but this is in hand, and not an unsuspecting hand at that.  At the very least, his brawn score should be added as difficulty dice.
 

There is an order 66 podcast that had a dev go into this.  Needless to say, whomever is GMing this is allowing for a wee too much to go on.  But to each their own....   If you want to tone it down a bit, listen to said podcast.


Edited by Shamrock, 24 February 2014 - 01:25 AM.

Be well,

 

Sham


#37 Dbuntu

Dbuntu

    Member

  • Members
  • 322 posts

Posted 24 February 2014 - 07:58 AM

 

The move power is for inanimate objects, you can't move people.  You cant toss, them, etc..  In addition even if they could move a person, figure 150 lbs.. Do you have any idea how much "force" that person would have to have?  For a group that hasn't been "playing that long", said person should have nowhere near the amount of xp needed for that. 

 

With the Strength upgrade you can move Silhouette 1 objects, a human is noted as Silhouette 1  :. You can move a humanoid with the Force.

It should require two pips; one to activate the base power and another to activate the upgrade. A FSE with a Force Rating 1, should be able to move a humanoid body with a good roll.


  • Aservan likes this

#38 Darkvalkyrie74

Darkvalkyrie74

    Member

  • Members
  • 13 posts

Posted 24 February 2014 - 08:01 AM

After reading everyones post, I feel the opposite. The force progression does suck & takes a long time for player to become "jedi level, if you will", but to force players back with GM tricks like needing a teacher or finding a holocron to progress further in this stage of the game is like telling a child to stop imagining to be a cop when he grows up until he finishes school & learns criminal justice first...to me that keeps the fun out.

We do not have Age of Rebellion out yet in hard copy (except for the beta) and who knows what will be added in Force & Destiny. I say let the players enjoy the game for how they want to see their characters play out in this system just as much as the GMs want to run their world in this system. Want to force the players to need to find a teacher or holocron to progress, then say the force powers in Force & Destiny cant be learned without it. Dont force them this early into the game.

Another similarity is like taking a child to the toy store & then saying you can only get something in the dollar aisle or nothing over $10.00. Too me thats a bit F'ed up. Either let him/her decide what toy he/she wants (force exile with or without a lot of force powers by their choice) or don't take him/her to the toy store (disallow force exile to be used at all.)
  • MosesofWar likes this

#39 Xalendar

Xalendar

    Member

  • Members
  • 102 posts

Posted 24 February 2014 - 09:37 AM

Considering that at the moment, with all the books (AoR beta include) a Force user can at best AND with a lot of XP reach a Froce rating of 3, I think that hindering Force usage isn't really a problem. With only Force rating 1 a force user can barely do thing on the level of a cantrip, things that mentalist and illusionist can easily do nowadays in our world (or at least they can make very good illusion of it). With a Force rating of 3 a Force user can generate a maximum of 6 force point (either black or white), which can trigger powerful effect IF he or she has also invested many XP in force power too. With all these XP your Assassin / Marauder is a one shot killing machine at both range and close combat, your pilot can be a member of the famous Rpgue Squadron and your Politico can convince entire towns (if not more) to do his binding. I don't think there is a balance problem here.

I am a GM at Star Wars since the old D6 edition, when the Force rules were really broken and a Force user could become a powerhouse capable of doing everything the team do, but better. This is not the case anymore. A dedicated Force character will only become what he is: a character good at using the Force. So putting restriction on such character will only frustrates them. If we play Star Wars it is a mix of space ship, cow boys and fantasy (knights using swords of light and magic being part of a typical fantasy setting from my point of view). Basically, the three things that made us dream when we were little kids (or at least that made me dream). If you forcibly exclude on of these aspects of your games, you are not playing Star Wars anymore.

Considering the need of a master I see at least 3 reasons why it shouldn't be mandatory:

- First, it is not mandatory rule wise. FFG probably did some balancing job before launching their game (like a beta for example).

- Second, their is plenty of example of powerful self taught Force user in the Extended Universe. Why your player cannot be one ? Most of Force tradition have started with self taught Force user.

- Third, the Force power presented in the book are very basic, even in their most potent form. They are not comparable to feat like those of the Dark Woman (that could literally walk through walls !) for example or more canon wise those of Dark Vador (like absorbing blaster fire with his hand or strangling an incompetent admiral thousand of kilometers away).

 

In my games, the only limit I impose, is for player to justify where a new power come from when they take it. Sense and Enhance come very naturally, being aware of surrounding and enhancing his own abilities being quite common needs in stressful situations. More esoteric applications (Move, Influence and Foresee) need a bit more of convincing role play from my players to open, but I allow them to buy it in game ! Do you think Luke ever managed to move something with the Force before he really needed to get his lightsaber on Hoth ?


  • MosesofWar likes this

#40 R2builder

R2builder

    Member

  • Members
  • 373 posts

Posted 24 February 2014 - 09:38 AM

First off, thanks everyone for the great posts and insight. It has been truly helpful. 

First I would like to address this:

 

 

The move power is for inanimate objects, you can't move people.  You cant toss, them, etc..  In addition even if they could move a person, figure 150 lbs.. Do you have any idea how much "force" that person would have to have?  For a group that hasn't been "playing that long", said person should have nowhere near the amount of xp needed for that. 

 

With the Strength upgrade you can move Silhouette 1 objects, a human is noted as Silhouette 1  :. You can move a humanoid with the Force.

It should require two pips; one to activate the base power and another to activate the upgrade. A FSE with a Force Rating 1, should be able to move a humanoid body with a good roll.

 

Thanks for the great thoughts. "At it's most basic, Move allows the Force user to move small objects he is very close to" Upgrades "Move's upgrades are fairly simple; they include the ability   to move more objects, larger objects, and move objects greater distances." So it is debatable I guess as to what this book means by object. By it's very definition it is  a person, but the book seems to use living persons as "Targets" and non-living as "objects". So thoughts?   So Shamrock, do you consider yourself to be an object? :) 

Now, I did mislead you all, he is Force Exile, not Emergent. That was our original plan, but that too was changed. As far as XP, I think he has a total of 290, with 30 not being used yet. That does include the starting 110 XP for Arkanian Offshoot.   

No matter what, he should not have been able to take a blaster from someone. He does not have that upgrade yet. 

As far as Force Point cost. The Strenght upgrade does show a light point on the chart. But in the text for Rane and Magnitude upgrades it has this. "However, remember the Force user must still spend Force points to activate the power's actual effects." This line is missing in the Strength Upgrade text. I looked in the errata and could not find anything on it. So by the text, a Force user could move silhouette 4 off of one Force point.  

 

After reading everyones post, I feel the opposite. The force progression does suck & takes a long time for player to become "jedi level, if you will", 

It can take a Gadgeteer a long time and a ton of XP to get to the "Boba Fett" level. Sorry, thanks for the input, but using that logic to make a statement invalidates the rest of your points.

I am torn on if and when I do make him get a teacher. If I do it would be something along the lines of you can't reach Force Level 3 without a teacher, not you can't learn Influence without one. 

Thanks again everyone, and I now have a pretty handle on most of the Force stuff. Just a few small details to clear up. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on "Objects". :) 


Please check out our group and leave comments at: https://edge-of-the-...dianportal.com/





© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS