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Advise on anti-personnel use of ship weapons


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#1 aballantine

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 08:45 PM

Hi everyone, my group went off-script a bit and ended up adventuring on Ryloth.  (We were using the "Long Arm of the Hutt" adventure -- and they decided to chase after the Dune Lizard after they shot it down....

 

So -- I created a scene where they were on the ground (luckily landing in a 'not too hot' part of Ryloth) -- and along came a Gutkurr to give them some opposition....

 

What I didn't expect was that they ran back into their YT-1300 -- shut the hatch and proceded to blast away at it with the big-ship lasers....

 

Having read that Gutkurrs were extremely thick-skulled, I allowed it -- but brings up the question of whether this is addressed anywhere.  How much damage would YT-1300 'medium laser' type weapons do on a personnel personal level?  Total vaporization?

 

Thanks :)



#2 Lathrop

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 08:58 PM

Ship scale is 10x normal. So 10 armor on a vehicle is like 10 soak, 3 damage from a ship laser would be 30 wound.



#3 HappyDaze

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 08:58 PM

The multiplier is x10, so the weapon does 60 Wounds + 10 Wounds per success. It means that vehicle weapons devastate non-vehicle targets. Depending on your views, this can be good or bad, but I think it's far less satisfying than the D6 scaling solution.


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#4 2P51

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 09:12 PM

Hi everyone, my group went off-script a bit and ended up adventuring on Ryloth.  (We were using the "Long Arm of the Hutt" adventure -- and they decided to chase after the Dune Lizard after they shot it down....

 

So -- I created a scene where they were on the ground (luckily landing in a 'not too hot' part of Ryloth) -- and along came a Gutkurr to give them some opposition....

 

What I didn't expect was that they ran back into their YT-1300 -- shut the hatch and proceded to blast away at it with the big-ship lasers....

 

Having read that Gutkurrs were extremely thick-skulled, I allowed it -- but brings up the question of whether this is addressed anywhere.  How much damage would YT-1300 'medium laser' type weapons do on a personnel personal level?  Total vaporization?

 

Thanks :)

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#5 aballantine

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 09:24 PM

Many thanks for the help :)



#6 HappyDaze

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 09:32 PM

Make sure to use this against PCs too. They have it coming!


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#7 Joker Two

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 09:59 PM

If you're worried about overkill, you could also try scaling it by x5.  Most starship weapons will still take out most creatures and characters, and most infantry weapons will still do minimal damage, but at least they'll have a chance.


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#8 Ghostofman

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 09:12 AM

Also note vehicle weapons difficulties are based on Sil, not range, and they crit harder.

 

So if you take Happy's advice (and you certainly should at some point), and use it against the players remember how nasty they get. A non grouped minion in a combat vehicle with just guns will probably be enough to require the players to change their drawers. A Rival or minion group could do some serious damage, and a craft with missiles, bombs, or other Blast weapons has the potential to TPK.


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#9 CrunchyDemon

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 10:15 AM

Our GM was running an adventure where we were basically taking over a Smuggler Baron's estate on Rodia.  We too, ran back to our YT-2400 and unloaded with the Laser Cannons.

 

As has been said, our reading of the rules told us that whatever the weapon's damage was should be multiplied by 10.  I think we added a difficulty die to the checks, our GM decided that a human-sized target would be harder to target with ship weapons, I don't know if that was RAW or not.


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#10 progressions

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 10:27 AM

CrunchyDemon, that's definitely RAW. There's a chart in the Space Combat section showing the difficulty of attacking from a ship based on the silhouette. If they're smaller than you, it's harder, if they're bigger, it's easier. You had the right idea!


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#11 HappyDaze

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 11:49 AM

Beware of auto-blasters and light blaster cannons on Silhouette 2 vehicles. They can engage from just beyond personal-scale Extreme range (planetary Close) and it's only Difficulty 2 for them to hit man-sized targets at that range.


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#12 Ghostofman

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 12:30 PM

Beware of auto-blasters and light blaster cannons on Silhouette 2 vehicles. They can engage from just beyond personal-scale Extreme range (planetary Close) and it's only Difficulty 2 for them to hit man-sized targets at that range.

 

Agreed, but remember Happy, that's the base difficulty, not the final pool. If the GM works to pool right (and factors in other things like he should be) it'll start to balance out fast.

 

This goes back to "you can't use your speeder everywhere" issue, and just moves on to the next phase.

Is the target in the open, or under cover? If in cover should the player be required to roll a sensors check to "reveal" the target before firing? If so what should that computers difficulty look like? If there's any terrain that could do everything from adding setback dice to increasing difficulty to upgrading difficulty, if the target is actually using cover that can add a couple setback more, other defenses and such can still be applied rules permitting. I'm sure there's more if you think about it.

 

Don't get me wrong, hitting a target out in the open on some Tatooine salt flat on a clear day is gonna be a massacre, but try attacking a target on a Nar Shadda "street" and things should get interesting.


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#13 HappyDaze

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 12:36 PM

Cover is usually a Setback die or two. Nothing too hard to shoot through for a trained gunner. I don't see needing Computers checks for targeting combatants that are actively shooting, but if they want to go all hide then sure. In general, most things that make shooting the speeder mounted weapon harder are going to make shooting any weapon harder. In some cases, the planetary weapon might even ignore lighter cover since it can blast right through it.


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#14 Ghostofman

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 02:32 PM

Cover is usually a Setback die or two. Nothing too hard to shoot through for a trained gunner. I don't see needing Computers checks for targeting combatants that are actively shooting, but if they want to go all hide then sure. In general, most things that make shooting the speeder mounted weapon harder are going to make shooting any weapon harder. In some cases, the planetary weapon might even ignore lighter cover since it can blast right through it.

 

Let's test it....

 

So you're in say... one of those weird flying Thighmaster gunships from Clone Wars, and you're attacking some Mercs in Mos Espa at... dusk... We'll assume you know where they are (an NPC buddy of yours commed it to you right before they shot him, so they also know you're coming and are taking cover).

 

You are at extreme range and want to fire your autoblasters at these dismounted fools. So I'd say your dice pool looks like...

2 Purple for base difficulty

Increased once because there's lots of small one story buildings in the way that might block your LOS outright

Upgraded once because you're in essence attacking a civilian town, so there's a lot that can go wrong there

Added 2 setback because the Mercs are actively using the town's features as hard cover.

Added one setback because the lighting isn't so great

 

Total: 2P, 1R, 3Blk

 

If you've got a Skill/ Ability ratio of say 3:2, against that you'll only be hitting about 1/4 of the time, maybe less. But I do feel the GM could easily justify reducing that difficulty as you get closer to you targets and can better pick them out.

 

It goes back to what I was saying, if those mercs were out on the flat at mid day, the difficulty would probably be just plain 2P, and they'd deserve whatever fire you want to rain upon them for being so dumb as to get caught in the open. So it's up to the GM to just give it a little thought, and design encounters that aren't that cut and dry, because doing something as simple as moving the mercs into town, and dropping the suns down over the horizon completely changes the dynamic.

 

Plus it encourages more interesting encounters anyway... In the out in the open situation you blast them in a single strafing run before you even get into range of their weapons. In the Mos Espa scenario you can either sit back at range and level half the town as you bombard these guys from afar, or you can cowboy up, move in closer, risk getting shot at a bit, and run a really dramatic chase as your Thighmaster pursues them through the streets and across the rooftops...


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#15 HappyDaze

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 02:59 PM

Pretty much everything you mentioned will apply to personal weapons firing back. They'll need to deal with the reduced lines of sight too and the fact that their stray shots may strike a building. While the speeder may not have cover, it could certainly get ad hoc defense bonuses for its speed.

 

 

When it comes down to the end though, the personal scale return fire is more penalized because of the differences in how personal (range based minor effect from Silhouette) vs planetary (Silhouette based only) Difficulties are set.


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#16 Ghostofman

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 03:52 PM

Again... lets test...

 

You fly your Thighmaster into say... Medium range to drop the difficulty down by making the buildings less effective cover.

 

The Thighmaster isn't a real heavy craft so it uses the same stats at the generic airspeeder in the Core book, just with an added autoblaster.

 

At this range our Mercs (equipped with blaster rifles) can now shoot back. As their difficulty pools looks like...

2P for range

upgrade for urban area

1B for dusk

So total of 1P 1R 1Blk.

 

We'll assume they have a skill/ability of 3:2 as well... Since you are vehicle scale and their blasters are personal scale, they need to score 10 points of damage for every 1 point of HT they want to knock off. With their weapons base damage of 9, that means they'll be able to knock off a minimum of one hull with each hit.

 

Some quick rolling shows these guys will be hitting roughly 50% of the time, so there's a good chance they'll be doing some damage before being wiped out. If the dice roll in their favor they might even be able to score some crits and maybe even down the Thighmaster.

 

Now, if we beef up the Thighmaster to use the T-16 stats... with its armor of 1, it will be largely invulnerable to anything short of a heavy repeating blaster, missile tube, or proper AAA. (I don't have my AoR book with me, but I'm assuming the anti-armor grenade+launcher couldn't do it, but I might be wrong, and we'll probably see more heavy weapons as AoR supplements come out, but that's no help now..)

 

But again, we're back to the issue of encounter design. If the player likes to cruise around in a T-16 and the GM isn't planning for that and selecting opponents and locations that both highlight and challenge that concept, well it's not the fault of the game mechanics.


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#17 HappyDaze

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 04:33 PM

It is the fault of the game mechanics that even missile tubes can't take out an armored speeder without putting a full magazine into them. Against armor 2+ heavy repeating blasters are just about useless.

 

I think this game did a terrible job with the interface between personal and planetary scale.


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#18 Ghostofman

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 04:52 PM

That's just a matter of opinion, but I do agree with you on some parts of it (an AT-PT should be vulnerable to a missile tube, HRBs should be able to hurt YT-1300s.)


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#19 Chrislee66

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:22 AM

It is the fault of the game mechanics that even missile tubes can't take out an armored speeder without putting a full magazine into them. Against armor 2+ heavy repeating blasters are just about useless.

 

I think this game did a terrible job with the interface between personal and planetary scale.

 

 

I agree, unfortunately.  The system does not seem to accurately reflect the source material in this respect.  



#20 Josep Maria

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Posted 01 March 2014 - 02:06 AM

Hi people!

 

Probably someone said it already too in a few posts but, after watching movies and a few Clone Wars episodes, the

x5 on vehichles or light armor and x10 on starships or heavy armor patch, seems fine to me.

 

Anyone tested it? Suggestions are welcome :D


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