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#1 Ihavebadluck

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 07:12 PM

if I'm remembering correctly it says action:perform a free barrel roll action etc. so my question is do you then get another action and the action part means thats when you do it?



#2 DB Draft

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 07:34 PM

The actual card text reads: ACTION: Perform a barrel roll, if you do not have a barrel roll action then receive 1 stress token. 

 

Then you remove a Target Lock.  This card has been errated so check here for more details:

 

http://www.fantasyfl.../X-Wing-FAQ.pdf

 

So it is not a free action per se but a barrel roll action that any ship can perform as their regular action.  You do not get another action unless you are allowed 2 actions (Darth Vader).  Even if it says an action is free then you cannot perform another action or repeat the same action twice.  Some pilots get a free boost or barrel roll action (Turr) but still cannot do 2 barrel rolls in the same round.


Edited by DB Draft, 19 February 2014 - 07:37 PM.

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#3 dbmeboy

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 10:16 PM

The errata actually was to "preform a free barrel roll action." The reason for it being a free action is that Expert Handling itself was your action with the barrel roll as something of a nested action.

#4 Jehan Menasis

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 03:23 AM

The errata is to make clear that the 'barrel roll' is indeed an action (albeit a free one) in order to prevent people from barrel rolling again in the same round, since you can't perform the same action twice in a round.

 

Something similar to what happens when "Performing a target lock action" vs simply "acquiring a target lock". One is an action, the other not... Thus, you can perform a Target Lock action and acquire a Target Lock in the same round.

 

In a similar way, people claimed that the "perform a barrel roll' part wasn't considered an 'action', and that you could barrel roll later again as a "true" action, (provided you could perform a second action, or were flying with vader).

 

In any case, since the card has the heading 'Action:', you must consume your ship's action to activate it. In other words: With expert hadling, you have to take an action to do a free action, but your action is spent nevertheless.



#5 Buhallin

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 09:34 AM

It wasn't changed to "make it clear". It was just plain changed. FFG doesn't errata for clarity.

If it doesn't say it's an action, it's not an action. This has been proven over and over.

#6 Bazinga

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 06:41 PM

Expert Handling The text on this card is incorrect. It should read: “ Action: Perform a free barrel roll action. If you do not have the action icon, receive 1 stress token. You may then remove 1 enemy target lock from your ship"


Clearly the text was incorrect so they corrected it for clarity, if they changed it it would have read the text on this card should read.

#7 dvor

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 06:46 AM

Clearly the text was incorrect so they corrected it for clarity ...

I beg to differ. The original card an the changed text are both clear. There is no doubt about how either of them works. It is a change of what the card does.

 

Prior to the change Vader with EH could barrel roll twice. After the change he no longer can.


X-wing is played over a series of game rounds. Turn is a type of maneuver.


#8 Buhallin

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 10:34 AM

The text on this card...should read: “

if they changed it it would have read the text on this card should read.


Uhm, OK.

Perhaps we should try a different approach on this. Why do you think barrel roll should be handled differently from target lock, where there's a clear distinction between the process and the action which let's you do the process?

#9 CrookedWookie

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 10:44 AM

Not sure who I'm agreeing with here, but this seems fairly cut and dry.

The original version, the barrel roll was not an action.  This left it open for abuse and the argument that the barrel roll granted by EH was not, itself, an action and thus didn't count towards the rule against performing the same action twice.  "But I didn't do the same action twice - I did the EH action, which just happens to barrel roll, and then performed a barrel roll action.  Totally different."

The revised card sidesteps that quite neatly.  Calling it a "free barrel roll action" kills several birds with one stone.  By making it clear that the barrel roll IS an action, it prevents you from using another action granted elsewhere to try and roll a second time.  And by making it a FREE action, it keeps it from counting against your one (standard) action for the turn.  If it instructed you simply "Action: perform a barrel roll action, you may then..." everyone would be confused because it looks like it's telling you to take two different actions.

 

Looked at another way, Expert Handling is saying you're spending an action, which grants you a free action.  The free action must be a barrel roll action.  Once you take your free barrel roll action you may remove a target lock.  


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#10 dbmeboy

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 10:47 AM

Yeah, let's not drag the EH argument back up. That went in circles enough prior to the errata. Do we really need to start arguing about which side was right pre errata? It's clear how it works now: EH is your action and as part of that action you preform a free barrel roll action.
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#11 CrookedWookie

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 10:50 AM

What he said.  ^

The old card might as well not exist.  Spend an action, take a free barrel roll action, clear a target lock if you want.

 

It's a free barrel roll action, so you get to do it as part of your EH action, but it is a barrel roll action, meaning you can't under any circumstances take another barrel roll action that turn.



#12 Buhallin

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 09:05 PM

I didn't really want to drag EH back up per se, but I do think the core distinction between the process of something like barrel roll or target lock, and the action, is important. There's nothing - at all - to suggest the errata was a change without impact which was only done for clarity. This errata, plus Dutch and R5-K6, establish that very important distinction, which has been (almost, at least) universally accepted by the community. If someone thinks there's a gap in our understanding there I'm open to addressing it, but any objection to that understanding needs to have some grounding in actual detail.




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