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Superior Customisation and Cortosis Weave are "attachments"?


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#1 LukeZZ

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 10:56 AM

How can Superior Customisation and Cortosis Weave be considered "attachments"?

It means that you can "attach" and "detach" them even without a Mechanics roll.

Shouldn't this type of "Attachments" be considered "Modification Options" of the basic item they modify?

(So you must roll to 'place" them and if you fail you can ruin the basic item)


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#2 mouthymerc

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 10:58 AM

Attachments/modifications. I think they are interchangeable terms in this case.


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#3 JasonRR

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 10:58 AM

I wouldn't think too hard on the terminology. These are mechanics for balance purposes and they seem to work pretty well for the system as a whole. If something feels wrong for you and your group, feel free to say these are "permanent attachments."



#4 2P51

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 11:00 AM

I think you're being a little too literal.


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#5 LukeZZ

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 11:11 AM

- Attachments are "things" you can attach or detach from a basic item. They use 1 or more Hard Points, have a base cost, don't require any Mechanics roll and can have Modification Options.

 

- Modification Options are options that you can apply to the Attachments. Once installed (on the Attachment) they can't be removed. They don't use any Hard Point, don't have a base cost (they cost a fixed amount that is determined by the number of Modification Options already installed) and require a Mechanics roll to apply (the difficulty is determined by the number of Modification Options already installed, a failure can ruin the Attachment).

 

My problem is not with the terminology, but with the effects.

By the rules, both Superior Customisation and Cortosis Weave works like Attachments.

It makes much more sense (to me) that they should work like Modification Options.



#6 Jegergryte

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 11:18 AM

I'd sort of agree, but in my book some of the attachments are more permanent than others, like for instance superior and cortosis, if I'm not mistaken neither has modification options.

 

If they we're modification options, what should the basic modification be? As in, what sort of attachment would they be part of...


Edited by Jegergryte, 19 February 2014 - 11:18 AM.

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#7 LukeZZ

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 11:45 AM

The "basic attachment" they modify should be the item itself.

But this is only an idea.

 

I think those "permanent upgrades" should:

1) require a Mechanics roll to apply (with the risk of wasting the basic item); maybe its difficulty should increase with the number of "permanent upgrades"

2) require money to buy

3) not require an Hard Point

4) not be able to be removed



#8 Ghostofman

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 11:59 AM

The book says Cortosis weave is applied underneath the armor, and that the Superior customization is done by adding or replacing the plating.

 

So if these are both aftermarket parts added to an item (that could probably be removed if the owner so desired), why would they not be attachments? Removing a Cortosis weave glued to the underside of all your plating is gonna be a pain, and replacing all Superior the aftermarket plates, plates you drilled out to conserve weight, and high end shock absorbing padding you installed with factory stock armor components would seem a  little more trouble then it's worth, but it can be done.

 

It's like claiming the Filed Front Sight "attachment" for a blaster pistol shouldn't work because you can't just replace the part you filed down.


Edited by Ghostofman, 19 February 2014 - 12:02 PM.

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#9 LukeZZ

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 12:15 PM

If you buy an armor, remove all the plating and install new Superior plating, you effectively have a new Superior armor that should have the same "customization slots" of the original armor.

If you buy an armor and add some Superior plating, you have Superior armor with less "customization slots" of the original armor, but it can easily return to the original state.

 

Some attachments should have the possibility to be "integrated" into a base object. Integrated would mean:

1) a mechanics roll install (another mechanics roll to replace)

2) no Hard Points cost

 

Even the H7 Equalizer Blaster Pistol (Suns of Fortune) is exactly a Superior Blaster Pistol, but it has 3 Hard Points (as a standard Blaster Pisotol).



#10 UHF

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 12:31 PM

I'd rule that they are inherent to the build of the product. They interfere with further mods because they make it more difficult to make further mods.

A better way to understand the mod rules is that they are really there to allow the players variety in their equipment, and not necessarily actual modifications.

#11 mouthymerc

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 12:56 PM

The game started with basic equipment which can be mofified using the current attachments, therefore allowing unique pieces of equipment for characters. We are now (as new sourcebooks release) seeing equipment with some things already built in. Who's to say we don't see something like a version of Mandalorian heavy armour that already incorporates the cortosis and superior qualities, and still has hard points for more customization, all with a comiserative cost? Doesn't mean that the attachments should change, though.


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#12 Ghostofman

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 01:03 PM

If you buy an armor, remove all the plating and install new Superior plating, you effectively have a new Superior armor that should have the same "customization slots" of the original armor.

Unless it's the plating with the hardpoints you are replacing with lighter aftermarket stuff to conserve weight.

 

 

 


Even the H7 Equalizer Blaster Pistol (Suns of Fortune) is exactly a Superior Blaster Pistol, but it has 3 Hard Points (as a standard Blaster Pisotol).

 

Thats how the game works. The stock stuff in the rule book it the generic base representation of gear you'd find the galaxy over. So if an item's make and model needs to be called out and statted, it's probably because it's different enough to warrant it. Be it because the item is better, or because it's total garbage.

 

If you switch to you "Mods use up no hard points" method, not only to you cause problems for the player who like to customize his gear to fit each adventure, but you also start stepping on the toes of that special kit that's out there.

 

If my TaggeMart store brand heavy battle armor can, without using up hardpoints, be modded to match Mandalorian armor's base stats, why should I ever want Mandalorian armor?


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#13 FuriousGreg

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 01:36 PM

"Attachment" is a game mechanic term that isn't always meant to be taken as literally something to attach to something else, so don't get hung up on the name. Attachments in this context are part of the rules for creating non stock armor and weapons. If you want a non stock armor and or weapon you must use these rules or abandon them, it's up to you, but you're wasting your time trying to argue why.

 

The RAW are in place not because they always make sense in every situation they're there to maintain a consistent, mostly balanced starting point so things don't go off the rails. Limits to "Attachments" and "Modifications" are in place for this reason. Ignoring the RAW will very likely have unintended consequences on game play so it's best to default to the RAW unless there is a pressing reason not to.

 

So in the end you can have your super special armor and you can describe it as made from super strong plates of Jello if you want as long as you create it using the RAW.


Edited by FuriousGreg, 19 February 2014 - 01:37 PM.

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#14 Ahrimon

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 03:31 PM

Does it make sense, not always.  Does it work for this style of game, yep.  There are times, depending on the type of person you are, where you have to just turn off your brain for a bit and have fun.  I'm one of them.  lol.



#15 2P51

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 03:40 PM

I was brief earlier, but it still stands.  Superior customization does not represent a doo hickey you place on a weapon.  The description spells out the weapon is turned over to a weaponsmith to be worked.  Feed ramp polished, trigger worked, mag well widened, moving parts polished and burrs removed, barrel ported, all the things a weapon smith does to a firearm to simply make it perform both more reliably and more accurately.  I draw that from the absurd cost tacked onto it.


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#16 cvtheoman

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 03:41 PM

 

 

 

 


Even the H7 Equalizer Blaster Pistol (Suns of Fortune) is exactly a Superior Blaster Pistol, but it has 3 Hard Points (as a standard Blaster Pisotol).

 

Thats how the game works. The stock stuff in the rule book it the generic base representation of gear you'd find the galaxy over. So if an item's make and model needs to be called out and statted, it's probably because it's different enough to warrant it. Be it because the item is better, or because it's total garbage.

 

Also, the rarity of the H-7 is extremely high (8, iirc), about double the normal blaster pistol.  Thus, it's not easy to obtain such a nice gun, and the base price listed (1200cr) is only a starting point.  Check the CRB Gear chapter for rules on rarity et al, and you'll see what I mean.


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#17 Ahrimon

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 06:29 PM

Also, the rarity of the H-7 is extremely high (8, iirc), about double the normal blaster pistol. Thus, it's not easy to obtain such a nice gun, and the base price listed (1200cr) is only a starting point. Check the CRB Gear chapter for rules on rarity et al, and you'll see what I mean.

If you are refering to the price modifications based on rarity, I've always taken those to only affect bulk trade. The entire section that their in is about bulk trade.

My GM has decided that all prices are based on price x rarity. So the more rare something is, the more it costs. I'm not sure if that's how he interprets the rules, if I've been misinterpreting them, or if that's just how he wants to roll with his game. Regardless, it does make that E-7 quite expensive.

Edited by Ahrimon, 20 February 2014 - 12:17 AM.


#18 HappyDaze

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 07:10 PM

Superior Customization means just putting designer labels on it. You can take them off and transfer them to other armor when we you feel like it. It's stupid, but thems tha rules what FFG gave us, an theyz neva wrong!


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#19 Hygric

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 12:04 AM

Here is a silly question, but one that I can see my PC's asking eventually.

 

What would be the cost of applying cortosis weave to a ship? :huh:

 

Their ship got hit by a conc missile last session... :D



#20 UHF

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 12:48 AM

Here is a silly question, but one that I can see my PC's asking eventually.
 
What would be the cost of applying cortosis weave to a ship? :huh:
 
Their ship got hit by a conc missile last session... :D

My guess would be, too f'ing much. Doing your body sized armour would cost 10k(?). Multiply by a 1000(?).




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