Jump to content



Photo

R7-T1


  • Please log in to reply
132 replies to this topic

#41 Darramouss

Darramouss

    Member

  • Members
  • 16 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 04:49 PM

The issue is not the 'then' statement. That only denotes that the boost must occur after the lock. The main issue is the full stop. A full stop seperates two statements. To me, this unlinks the target lock choice from the boost choice.

If you wanted the statements to be linked and therefore conditional they should be in the same sentence, such as...

You may acquire a target and then may perform a free boost.

For the second statement to be dependent on the first and maintain different sentences it would need to be worded like...

You may acquire a target lock. If you do acquire a target lock you may perform a free boost.

Based on the above I would regard the choices to be completely independent of each other. Lastly, whilst common sense often has no place in game mechanics, I can't see why a ship would need to lock a target in order to boost. That seems nonsensical to me.

#42 Stone37

Stone37

    Member

  • Members
  • 876 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 04:50 PM

I don't understand the debate.  It is a "may" statement.



#43 GroggyGolem

GroggyGolem

    Member

  • Members
  • 670 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 04:55 PM

I don't understand the debate.  It is a "may" statement.

Some thought it was an IF/THEN Action but it isn't. (As in, IF you meet the requirements and use the TL, THEN you may boost.) I and some others (KineticOperator) were just explaining why it isn't that way.


Rebels: 3 X-Wing, 1 Y-Wing, 1 A-Wing, 1 B-Wing, 1 YT-1300

Imperials: 5 TIE/LN, 1 TIE/ADV, 1 TIE/IN, 1 Firespray-31


#44 Swedge

Swedge

    Member

  • Members
  • 511 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 05:18 PM

trying to put logic on this... You acquire the target lock...when the enemy pilot get locked on to, he or she gets distracted allowing you to boost away!! 


anybody in the Sumter S.C. area???


#45 That One Guy

That One Guy

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,395 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 06:26 PM

If you choose to take the target lock, you can then boost if you wish, but the TL is a prerequisite.

Yes, I would figure that's about the case. You must be within the range requirement and within the arc to use this at all, because the whole compound action is conditional upon that initial prerequisite. So I would say you don't get to just use the boost whenever.


  • Swedge, Parravon and Engine25 like this

#46 Jehan Menasis

Jehan Menasis

    Member

  • Members
  • 509 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 06:38 PM

 

If you choose to take the target lock, you can then boost if you wish, but the TL is a prerequisite.

Yes, I would figure that's about the case. You must be within the range requirement and within the arc to use this at all, because the whole compound action is conditional upon that initial prerequisite. So I would say you don't get to just use the boost whenever.

 

 

I disagree. The only requeriment to use the ability is having an enemy at range 1-2. And if you are in its firing arc, you can get a free target lock on him. Then, no matter what happened with the target lock part, you may boost.

 

In other words: You can always boost if you can designate an enemy at range 1-2. That's the main action of the ability.

But if you are also in his firing arc, you may get a Free target Lock on him before boosting. That's the conditional part of the ability.

 

Otherwise, the first sentence of the ability doesn't makes sense. If you can only TL+Boost when inside a firing arc, why can you choose any enemy at range 1-2 as the target of your ability?


  • Two_Hands, KineticOperator and IvlerIin like this

#47 IvlerIin

IvlerIin

    Member

  • Members
  • 378 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 06:39 PM

Reading the text tells me:

 

IF you are within Range 1-2 AND inside the Firing Arc of an enemy ship, THEN take a free Boost action.

the Range 1-2 + Within Firing Arc is the requirement to use the Boost action.

 

The Target Lock is optional. the card can function without that middle sentence.

 

If you want to Target Lock the ship that has you in their Firing Arc you may. Otherwise you can keep your Current Target Lock on whatever target you currently have targeted.

 

the "May acquire" is there so you have the option of changing your TL to a higher priority target (the one more likely to kill you). 

It also comes packaged with the E-Wing which comes with systems. the combo was probably intended for R7-T1 was with Adv.Sensors.

the combo would allow the you to change TL to the ship right behind the E-Wing boost + K-Turn and hopefully the enemy ship didn't over shoot the E-Wing thanks to the boost. and now you also have TL for your shooting phase.

 

Edit: beat by a minute :S


Edited by IvlerIin, 18 February 2014 - 06:41 PM.

  • Johdo likes this

It's read as "Merlin"... and yes, like Ivlagic...


#48 Sithborg

Sithborg

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,537 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 07:19 PM

This is going to be a long wait for the Wave 4 FAQ.


  • Revanchist, Johdo and IvlerIin like this

#49 Rakky Wistol

Rakky Wistol

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,408 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 10:54 PM

If I win the lottery, I may have more friends. Then I am rich.
  • IvlerIin likes this

#50 Deadwolf

Deadwolf

    Member

  • Members
  • 50 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 11:23 PM

I don't get the debate.

There are 2 sentences, 2 "may" statements, and nothing links the 2 actions (the "then" only indicate the boost happens after TL).


  • KineticOperator, Johdo and dvor like this

#51 Eltnot

Eltnot

    Member

  • Members
  • 823 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 11:31 PM

Reading that card, my understanding is that you must meet the criteria of being in the fire arc of the enemy.  If you are, you may choose to get a target lock or not.  You will perform the boost action regardless of whether you get a TL or not, but you must have met the criteria for being in the enemy's arc to get the boost action.

 

Regardless, I think we have plenty of time for FFG to update the FaQ regarding this card's use before we actually have it in our hands.


Carpe Jugulum

Spoiler

#52 KaryudoDS

KaryudoDS

    Member

  • Members
  • 32 posts

Posted 19 February 2014 - 12:02 AM

Reading that card, my understanding is that you must meet the criteria of being in the fire arc of the enemy.  If you are, you may choose to get a target lock or not.  You will perform the boost action regardless of whether you get a TL or not, but you must have met the criteria for being in the enemy's arc to get the boost action.

 

Regardless, I think we have plenty of time for FFG to update the FaQ regarding this card's use before we actually have it in our hands.

 

I think the fact that the first sentence only has a range requirement is what's making people think the arc may have nothing to do with the boost part of the action.

 

Though what you're saying makes sense to me. I don't see why you should get a boost of an enemy ship is just nearby but ignoring you entirely.



#53 Parravon

Parravon

    Member

  • Members
  • 966 posts

Posted 19 February 2014 - 02:36 AM

OK, game designer's logic incoming:

Ponder this - why did FFG put this on a card if it wasn't supposed to be used ALL at the same time? 

It is clearly stated as an Action to be used instead of regular actions (Target Lock, Focus, Evade, Barrel Roll). The only ships it can be used with are those with droid slots (E, X & Y) that coincidentally don't come with Boost as a standard available action. They all have Target Lock already. You can take a Target Lock on ANY ship at 1-3 as a standard action.

BUT, by using R7 you are trying to gain the boost action as well as the Target Lock, which can only be used after the above conditions on the card are met. The "if/then" statement couldn't be more clear. The Action here is the WHOLE card, not just some bits.

 

WHY would FFG allow a choice of Target Lock OR Boost on one card when the Engine Upgrade card can give you the Boost action and Target Lock is already an available action? 

 

This card is clearly allowing the player to acquire a Target Lock THEN Boost thus giving him a double action. The fact that it says "may" for both actions doesn't make them suddenly individually optional. Why would you choose to use this card just for a target lock and not boost also? If you wanted to Boost only, FFG assumes you would take the Engine Upgrade.

 

If you took an E-Wing (or X, or Y) with an Engine Upgrade, you would be able to Target Lock OR Boost as an action, not both in the same turn. The intention of the R7-T1 card is to provide both, but with restrictions on the Target Lock. This is a defensive card, hence the requirement that you be in their firing arc at range 1-2. The boost should hopefully put you either further away, or even outside their firing arc. If the price to pay is a shorter range Target Lock, it sounds pretty good so far.

 

As for timing issues, it states acquire Target Lock THEN Boost, not the other way round. If I was organising a tournament and this came up, there is absolutely no way I would allow a player to use this card as a boost only option. Anyone trying to use this card JUST to use the Boost action part are treating it like a cheap Engine Upgrade and I don't believe that was the idea behind the card to start with.

 

PS: The reason they put a full stop in there was to break up a long sentence. That's how the English language works. 


  • Two_Hands, Vorpal Sword, Hexis and 2 others like this

Rick

Hastings, New Zealand

3 X-Wing, 2 A-Wing, 1 Y-Wing, 1 B-Wing, 1 E-Wing, 1 YT-1300

3 TIE Fighters, 3 TIE Int, 1 TIE Adv, 1 TIE Bomber, 1 TIE Phantom, 1 TIE Defender, 1 Firespray-31


#54 Jehan Menasis

Jehan Menasis

    Member

  • Members
  • 509 posts

Posted 19 February 2014 - 03:35 AM

OK, game designer's logic incoming:

Ponder this - why did FFG put this on a card if it wasn't supposed to be used ALL at the same time? 

It is clearly stated as an Action to be used instead of regular actions (Target Lock, Focus, Evade, Barrel Roll). The only ships it can be used with are those with droid slots (E, X & Y) that coincidentally don't come with Boost as a standard available action. They all have Target Lock already. You can take a Target Lock on ANY ship at 1-3 as a standard action.

BUT, by using R7 you are trying to gain the boost action as well as the Target Lock, which can only be used after the above conditions on the card are met. The "if/then" statement couldn't be more clear. The Action here is the WHOLE card, not just some bits.

 

WHY would FFG allow a choice of Target Lock OR Boost on one card when the Engine Upgrade card can give you the Boost action and Target Lock is already an available action? 

 

This card is clearly allowing the player to acquire a Target Lock THEN Boost thus giving him a double action. The fact that it says "may" for both actions doesn't make them suddenly individually optional. Why would you choose to use this card just for a target lock and not boost also? If you wanted to Boost only, FFG assumes you would take the Engine Upgrade.

 

If you took an E-Wing (or X, or Y) with an Engine Upgrade, you would be able to Target Lock OR Boost as an action, not both in the same turn. The intention of the R7-T1 card is to provide both, but with restrictions on the Target Lock. This is a defensive card, hence the requirement that you be in their firing arc at range 1-2. The boost should hopefully put you either further away, or even outside their firing arc. If the price to pay is a shorter range Target Lock, it sounds pretty good so far.

 

As for timing issues, it states acquire Target Lock THEN Boost, not the other way round. If I was organising a tournament and this came up, there is absolutely no way I would allow a player to use this card as a boost only option. Anyone trying to use this card JUST to use the Boost action part are treating it like a cheap Engine Upgrade and I don't believe that was the idea behind the card to start with.

 

PS: The reason they put a full stop in there was to break up a long sentence. That's how the English language works. 

 

Again, I disagree.

 

This card gives precisely a limited boost action. You can boost, but only if you have an enemy near you. If you wanted to boost whenever you want, you should take the 'engine upgrade' card instead. But this little cute R7 unit offers a limited version of the boost action. And as a cherry on top, if you are inside your designated enemy firing arc, take a free target lock.

 

Also, by taking this limited boost, your ship's 'modification' slot is still free to take a hull, shield upgrade... or whatever.


Edited by Jehan Menasis, 19 February 2014 - 03:36 AM.


#55 DB Draft

DB Draft

    Member

  • Members
  • 540 posts

Posted 19 February 2014 - 04:28 AM

What makes sense "cinematically" to me is that the astromech is trying to get you out of the target's fire arc with the boost action.  As the astromech is effectively a TL action at range 1-2 you have a better chance to get out of the fire arc (narrower arc than out to range 3) with the free boost.  If you don't use the TL action then the astromech thinks you've got everything sorted so doesn't apply a tweek to the engines for the boost.


  • Parravon likes this

Nerfherder in Training


#56 Jehan Menasis

Jehan Menasis

    Member

  • Members
  • 509 posts

Posted 19 February 2014 - 05:11 AM

I think that's part of the problem... Since people don't fully understand the effect, they are trying to visualize it 'cinematically' in order to 'make sense' in their heads.

 

They are trying to understand 'why' and 'how' R7 does that, rather than simply applying what the card says.

 

But flavour explanations are not the most optimal way to analize what a card does 'mechanically' wise.



#57 That One Guy

That One Guy

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,395 posts

Posted 19 February 2014 - 08:08 AM

After rereading the card and seeing there is no comma, I have to amend my statement. It's two separate actions, both conditional on being within the firing arc and at range 1-2, either of which could be taken and that must be resolved in a specific order.


  • Johdo, GroggyGolem and IvlerIin like this

#58 VanorDM

VanorDM

    Rules Ninja

  • Members
  • 3,631 posts

Posted 19 February 2014 - 09:25 AM

After rereading the card and seeing there is no comma, I have to amend my statement.


But that's not what the card says really.

It says "chose an enemy at range 1-2." then goes on to list two things you may do.

"If you are inside that ship's firing arc, you may acquire a target lock on that ship."
"Then, you may preform a free boost action."

The condition of being in the targets firing arc is listed as part of sentence for the TL action. It doesn't seem to be a condition for the boost action, only that you be with in range 1-2.

If you needed to be in the firing arc for either or both actions, then that requirement should of been listed in the first sentence.

Edited by VanorDM, 19 February 2014 - 09:29 AM.

  • KineticOperator, GroggyGolem and dvor like this

#59 Engine25

Engine25

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,186 posts

Posted 19 February 2014 - 09:44 AM

This doesn't make any sense... you have to meet ALL the prerequisites to activate the action, and the single action includes a target lock followed by a free boost.  In order to boost, you MUST have declared a target lock.  The action allows you to do the following, IN THE ORDER LISTED!

 

1.  Declare an opponent.

2.  Declare R7-T1.

3.  Verify Range 1-2.

4.  Verify enemy firing arc.

5.  Acquire Target Lock on the opponent.

6.  Boost.

7.  IN THAT ORDER!

 

It is still a powerful card.  The cost reduction is because it has VERY specific activation requirements that will not always apply.  Sounds to me like people are just trying to find a way to get a 3 point engine upgrade.   Guarantee it will be FAQ'ed.


  • Vorpal Sword, Parravon and Klutz like this
Just another stuck up, half-witted, scruffy-looking Nerf-Herder bidding you, Fly Casual.

#60 KineticOperator

KineticOperator

    Member

  • Members
  • 747 posts

Posted 19 February 2014 - 09:44 AM

As VanorDM said, if the firing arc were a requirement for everything it would have been included in the sentence with the requirement to be at range 1-2.  

 

"Choose an enemy ship at Range 1-2 that has you in its firing arc.  You may acquire a target lock on that ship.  Then, you may take a free boost action."

 

It is not worded that way, however.  Neither is it worded in a way that would require you to be in arc to take the boost.  It is instructive that those who advocate this belief are compelled to reword it when stating their position.  They either add words (and, if), or change the punctuation (period becomes a comma) or both.  This is because, as written, the free boost action is not contingent on being in arc.

 

The real issue is that punctuation has real meaning, as does sentence structure, despite the fact that people in general and Americans especially tend to ignore those rules when speaking.  You don't simply add periods willy-nilly in order to break up long sentences, or add commas wherever you believe you should take a breath.  A sentence is a single complete thought.  A second sentence is not reliant on previous sentences.  In order for a sentence to reference a previous thought, it must contain within itself some indication that it does so.


Edited by KineticOperator, 19 February 2014 - 09:45 AM.

  • Two_Hands, GroggyGolem and Rakky Wistol like this




© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS