Jump to content



Photo

Which is more survivable?


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 Iffo

Iffo

    Member

  • Members
  • 243 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 07:09 AM

So I've been wondering which one takes more shots to kill - the TIE Fighter/Interceptor (X-3-3-0) or the Z95 / TIE Phantom (X-2-2-2). Let's ignore crit effects and only think of range 2 attack by: 2 dice + focus; 2 dice, no focus; 3 dice + focus; 3 dice, no focus.

 

Has someone done the math already? Care to share?

 

Thanks!


(-o-)   (-o-)   (-o-)   |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   (<o>)   |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   (-co-)   (-co-)   (-co-)  

:>8@8<:   :>8@8<:   :>8@8<:   o=<@>=o   o=<@>=o   o=<@>=o   -</o\>-   -</o\>-   @-|=---o   @-|=---o 


#2 markcsoul

markcsoul

    Member

  • Members
  • 720 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 08:48 AM

Someone on some website (team covenant maybe?) awhile ago did a simple formula to get an idea of how survivable ships are (assuming just plain dice no modifications I believe).

 

You take the ship's evade number, add 1, then multiply by the total number of hit points it has.  The number you get is the number of attack dice it will take to destroy your ship on average.

 

So tie fighters & tie interceptors would die after having 12 attack dice rolled against them (3+1x3).  The Z-95 & Tie Phantom would die after having 12 attack dice rolled against them as well (2+1x4).

 

So in otherwords in "theory" they are equally hard to kill.

 

When you start adding in focus, evade, if the other person uses focus or target lock, etc, it gets more complicated.


REBEL: 1 A-Wing, 1 B-Wing, 1 E-Wing, 3 X-Wings, 1 Y-Wing, 1 Z-95, 1 HWK-290, 1 YT-1300, 1 GR-75

IMPERIAL: 1 Advanced, 1 Bomber, 1 Defender, 3 Fighters, 3 Interceptors, 1 Phantom, 2 Firesprays

SCUM: TBD


#3 Khyros

Khyros

    Advocate of A & E Wings Everywhere

  • Members
  • 2,001 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 09:09 AM

The Z will take 7.87 unfocused attacks from 2 dice, 4.55 from 3, 4.70 from 2F, and 2.61 from 3F to kill... assuming you don't have a focus for defense.

 

The TIE will take 8.47 from 2, 4.45 from 3, 4.89 from 2F, 2.46 from 3F, again, assuming no defensive focus.

 

So, the numbers are rather similar to say by them alone one is more survivable than the other.  However, the TIE has the advantage of barrel roll, and evade token which the Z95 does not have.  As such, I would expect the TIE to be more survivable in the hands of a good pilot.  Also note, the TIE is hurt more from bombs, asteroids, and APL than the Z-95.


The fleet:  

Spoiler

#4 Magnus Grendel

Magnus Grendel

    The Empire Needs You!

  • Members
  • 1,357 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 09:14 AM

Which is fair enough for the interceptor; it's the more expensive fighter. I've always been pleased with how tough the basic TIE/ln is for its cost, though.

 

There's is a slight sting in the tail in favour of the shielded fighters - the first hit or two cannot inflict criticals. Having had 'double damage' criticals unexpecteldly finish off a fighter, or evade/attack dice/manouvre reducing crits "mission kill" it, that shield is quite valuable, plus (as noted) there's the question of the TIE avoiding - rather than simply evading - shots. On the other hand, that missile slot opens up very dangerous options on a cheap fighter. Homing or Assault missiles can do nasty things to TIE fighter squads.



#5 Iffo

Iffo

    Member

  • Members
  • 243 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 10:25 AM

Thanks Khyros, the raw numbers were indeed what I was looking for here. I'm just interested in the correlation between evade and total hull/shield. So it turns out the fourth hit point is more or less of similar value as the third evade point against three attack dice.

 

The cheap TIEs surely have more additional options available when it comes to surviving... so does the Phantom come to think of it.


  • DraconPyrothayan likes this

(-o-)   (-o-)   (-o-)   |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   (<o>)   |-o-|   |-o-|   |-o-|   (-co-)   (-co-)   (-co-)  

:>8@8<:   :>8@8<:   :>8@8<:   o=<@>=o   o=<@>=o   o=<@>=o   -</o\>-   -</o\>-   @-|=---o   @-|=---o 


#6 dbmeboy

dbmeboy

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,360 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 11:39 AM

You also have to consider that, ignoring critical hits, it is much easier to 1-shot the 3-hull TIEs than the 2/2 Headhunters and Phantoms.

#7 Parravon

Parravon

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,135 posts

Posted 19 February 2014 - 12:57 AM

When you're playing a game that involves a random factor generated by dice, you're at the mercy of Lady Luck. I have taken superior forces into combat only to be beaten by my own lousy dice rolls. Anything can happen, and there's no such thing as "averages".


  • Revanchist and BattlePriest like this

Rick

Hastings, New Zealand

3 X-Wing, 2 A-Wing, 1 Y-Wing, 1 B-Wing, 1 E-Wing, 1 YT-1300

3 TIE Fighters, 3 TIE Int, 1 TIE Adv, 1 TIE Bomber, 1 TIE Phantom, 1 TIE Defender, 1 Firespray-31


#8 BattlePriest

BattlePriest

    Member

  • Members
  • 278 posts

Posted 19 February 2014 - 04:42 AM

Indeed, I agree, I have concentrated fire on a Firespray for 3 rounds with 2 Tie fighters, 1 interceptor and 1 shuttle with HLC, all with focus, and only taken 1 shield off for the 3 rounds (the Ties are either at range 2 or 1 for either of the rounds).

 

During those 3 rounds, I lost my named Tie (Dark Curse), had my Ties down to 1 hull and my shuttle has lost all its shields and my Ties always have focus on them (although my guys always shoots later). :(

 

Before the 3 turns, I have already destroyed his extra Tie, Backstabber and his 3rd ship, Vader, was flying around.

 

We were having a fun Imperial vs Imperial battle, in which I  jokingly referred my forces as Zarrin's squadron. ha ha.


Edited by BattlePriest, 19 February 2014 - 04:46 AM.


#9 DraconPyrothayan

DraconPyrothayan

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,835 posts

Posted 20 February 2014 - 10:09 AM

Last night, I played a game whose field was populated by 12 asteroids (it was a Variant).
Every shot my Outer Rim Smuggler took was a crit, even when I flew over asteroids.
A Firespray who seemed to run over an asteroid every other turn (as well as my Anti-Pursuit Lasers for 5 of them) didn't roll a single point of damage to himself.

In the words of Jubal Early, "Does that seem right to you?"



#10 Khyros

Khyros

    Advocate of A & E Wings Everywhere

  • Members
  • 2,001 posts

Posted 20 February 2014 - 10:11 AM

Last night, I played a game whose field was populated by 12 asteroids (it was a Variant).
Every shot my Outer Rim Smuggler took was a crit, even when I flew over asteroids.
A Firespray who seemed to run over an asteroid every other turn (as well as my Anti-Pursuit Lasers for 5 of them) didn't roll a single point of damage to himself.

In the words of Jubal Early, "Does that seem right to you?"

 

Just think of it this way... your hit dice were hot, and his were cold.  I hope you took advantage of that and blew him out of the sky!


  • DraconPyrothayan likes this

The fleet:  

Spoiler

#11 AnsibleTheta

AnsibleTheta

    Member

  • Members
  • 114 posts

Posted 20 February 2014 - 03:57 PM

Last night, I played a game whose field was populated by 12 asteroids (it was a Variant).
Every shot my Outer Rim Smuggler took was a crit, even when I flew over asteroids.
A Firespray who seemed to run over an asteroid every other turn (as well as my Anti-Pursuit Lasers for 5 of them) didn't roll a single point of damage to himself.

In the words of Jubal Early, "Does that seem right to you?"

Jubal Early doesn't get enough love.






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS