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Custom Templates Really Wrong?


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#41 AlexW

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 06:49 AM

If you take some fine sandpaper and carefully sand down each end of the "offending" templates, they will eventually match your cardboard ones. Seriously though, it shouldn't make much of a difference if both players use the same set of templates, no one gains any advantage or disadvantage. If I was playing someone quibbling over something so trivial, I would just pack up and go home. I play to have fun and when someone starts to suck the fun out of a game, I go play something else.


I don't think people are worried about friendly games with respect to this.

I've played a lot of miniature games that use measurement and find players get very good at knowing almost exactly where something will end up. Switching templates on them (one way or the other) that are different could end up meaning the difference between hitting an asteroid or not, running into an enemy, or not, and while I don't have an exact percentage difference here, my one-turn looks like enough of a difference that it could throw off myself or my opponent to use each others' templates.

There's the fact that when you pay a premium price for something you'd expect it to be as precise as possible (and maybe it is, just to a different printing of FFG templates). I probably should checked more closely before getting multiple sets or at least figured out their standard before doing so.

All that said, while I think the difference is enough to throw a player off who is used to a certain set, there's probably not a big enough difference for it to be significant advantage or disadvantage in this game. Still, I'd like to know the issue and all it takes is for one person to make a stink at an event to ruin the fun, and you can't just pack up your set and go home there :). And really, it would be fine to switch in that situation, but it would be a bummer to not be able to use the templates I purchased and think look pretty sweet.

#42 PenguinBonaparte

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 09:01 AM

So, if you're taking the time to read this thread, would you please measure your 1 turn for both the custom and the FFG pieces? It doesn't tell me a lot to say that they fit or they don't when there may or may not be major differences in the cardboard. 



#43 AlexW

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 09:33 AM

So, if you're taking the time to read this thread, would you please measure your 1 turn for both the custom and the FFG pieces? It doesn't tell me a lot to say that they fit or they don't when there may or may not be major differences in the cardboard.


Sorry, didn't think to measure, but mine match up exactly like yours. Based on when we bought our core sets, I bet they're the same printing. It' said good point, though, and I will measure mine.

Edited by AlexW, 19 February 2014 - 09:33 AM.


#44 superdave

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 02:31 PM

Of course, FFG's cardboard templates are all derived from the standard X-Wing movement template, which is made of platinum-iridium and housed at the International Bureau of Weights and Measures in Paris.


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#45 Audio Weasel

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 03:29 PM

Of course, FFG's cardboard templates are all derived from the standard X-Wing movement template, which is made of platinum-iridium and housed at the International Bureau of Weights and Measures in Paris.

Oh, now why'd you have to bring that up?  Now I want platinum-iridium templates......  and range ruler......  and tokens


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Current Fleet:

Rebel: 4 A-Wings, 4 B-Wings, 2 HWK-290's, 3 YT-1300s, 4 X-Wings, 2 Y-Wing, 1 Tantive IV, 1 Rebel Transport, 4 E-Wing, 5 Z-95 

Imperial:  3 Lambda Shuttles,  2 Firespray-31's, 3 Tie Advanced, 4 Tie Bombers, 6 Tie Fighters, 2 Tie Interceptors,   2 Imperials Aces, 4 TIE Phantom, 4 TIE Defender

On Pre-order:2 Z-95, 2 Rebel Aces, 2 YT-2400, 2 Decimator


#46 PenguinBonaparte

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 03:31 PM

There are no standards! God is dead! All is permitted!!!!


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#47 MikeEMcGee

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 03:37 PM

My Cardboard 1 turn comes in at 3.6cm:

http://imgur.com/Ry9...ZviYW,J7PZ1YG#0

 

My 1 day old Litko "custom set" also lands at 3.6cm:

http://imgur.com/Ry9...ZviYW,J7PZ1YG#1

Edit: This pic really makes it look like 3.55cm, but I think I'm at a funky angle allowing the illusion. 

 

 

I've got a pretty bad tremor in my hands, but when you overlay one on the other, neither sticks out at all on any surface.  They are according to my sense of touch exactly the same size.  A practiced braille enthusiast may be able to feel something I can't, but to me they are the same size.

 

I tried to overlay them, but between my shaky stacking and shaky camera work, I don't think this really shows anything:

http://imgur.com/Ry9...ZviYW,J7PZ1YG#2

Edit: This pic may not be worthless as you can see the acrylic is 3.6

 

 

My core set was bought in late dec 13.  Dunno if that helps you any, but I've got no buyer's remorse with my Litko's!  USPS let me down for a week, but that's another story.


Edited by MikeEMcGee, 19 February 2014 - 03:46 PM.

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#48 Parravon

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 03:59 PM

Still, I'd like to know the issue and all it takes is for one person to make a stink at an event to ruin the fun, and you can't just pack up your set and go home there :). And really, it would be fine to switch in that situation, but it would be a bummer to not be able to use the templates I purchased and think look pretty sweet.

 

Indeed, it only takes one bad apple to ruin the lot. As for events, in my little corner of the world a tournament would consist of less than ten players - if we're lucky. Our local gamers are all old school and wouldn't worry about trivial measurements. We're in it to have fun. The biggest concern is not the size discrepancies, but "are those your templates or mine?"  - we're all using the core set cardboard templates and although being aware of possible variances, we still haven't bothered to compare each others templates. There's usually only one set on the table, so no problem.


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Rick

Hastings, New Zealand


#49 PenguinBonaparte

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 04:11 PM

Awesome, thanks Mike!! Measured along the inner track like that my cardboard is just like yours, somewhere between 36 to 37, and the TC is 40.



#50 dbmeboy

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 05:45 PM

I went back and checked and sure enough my TC speed-1 turn is off in about the same way... the rest of the set is spot on though.

 

839908240.jpg?1392852210

839908210.jpg?1392852183


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#51 PenguinBonaparte

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 06:13 PM

Thanks! Now I can be sure that my set is representative.

 

I guess since these things are all legal, the mystery is more in what's going on in these sets.

 

With the 3 and the 2 turn, the TC templates travel nice round numbers on one axis, 100 and 75 mm., but that just makes it weird that the TC 1 turn only goes 48 instead of the 50 you'd expect, and the FFG one is a clear 45. 

 

Judging from the FFG ones, the banks seem to be made so that with the slightly shorter distances on the TC, two of them put together will travel 90 and 140mm for the 1 and 2 along an axis.

 

So the one turn is what's going to stay a mystery. The biggest impact of this difference seems to be that we'll need to leave a small bit more lateral spacing between our ships if we want to turn in formations, since the inner side will come a little closer. I'll look at some other combinations later.



#52 HunterEste

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 06:21 PM

I love the game, but was pretty shocked that something so critical to the basic ability to play was made of.....cardboard. Seriously, something this important should be made of better material.

 

 



#53 UnfairBanana

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 06:25 PM

Just measured my templates from Applied Perspective, and they're all perfect


Rebels: 4 X-Wings, 2 Y- Wings, 2 A-Wings, 2 B-wings, 1 HWK-290, 1 YT-1300, 1 GR-75 Space whale, 1 CR-90 Corvette

 

Empire: 5 TIE/LN, 4 TIE Interceptors(1 Guard, 2 Saber, 1 Standard), 2 TIE Bombers, 1 TIE Advanced, 2 Firesprays, 1 Lambda


#54 period3

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 06:48 PM

Why is it necessary to be as accurate possible? 

 

Just because life or death comes down to mm, doesn't mean that having templates off by a few mm makes any predictable difference.  If one can't anticipate or take advantage of any difference, then it's hardly unfair.  If anyone can figure out how to consistently use a 1mm shorter template to their advantage, then they're probably a lot better at X-wing than their opponent anyway.

 

Actually, I have to disagree. Placement is critical in this game. I bought a set of acrylic maneuver templates that were off a lot more than any of my cardboard ones are. I think, especially for tournaments, one set should be used and it should be a stock set, not something unofficial. Some of the acrylic templates I got are way off. I have been very disappointed in them. Now ì have seen others that were very good. Mine are too inaccurate to use for anything. While bumps occur, I think we can all agree it is good to be as accurate as possible.


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#55 DarkFather

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 06:50 PM

My LGS in my little backwater Australian town just had some templates made up with the store name etched into them. No idea of the company that made the templates, but they are spot on in every way to my Original print run cardboard templates (from two different starter boxes). Oh, and they're electric green, and look awesome. ;)

 

Cheers


8x TIE/ln, 4x TIE/adv, 7x TIE/int, 4x TIE/Bomber, 3x Firespray, 3x Shuttle, 7x X-wing, 4x Y-wing, 3x A-wing, 3x B-wing, 3x YT-1300, 1x GR-75, 1x CR-90.


#56 PenguinBonaparte

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 06:57 PM

Yeah, for most of these shapes the amount of variation just in us placing our ships is going to be more. It's only the 1 turn that really seems different right now and departs also from the pattern of radii. Once I get a good answer to that one I'll feel pretty good about these, though it might just turn out to be that the FFG acrylics they went off of varied. That one turn though is what you use for getting around asteroids with a tie swarm, so I could see it having an impact for how close I can go. Also dbmeboy, that blue looks good. I really like the look of my green, but that might be the nicest color!


Edited by PenguinBonaparte, 19 February 2014 - 06:59 PM.


#57 dbmeboy

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 10:03 PM

:-) thanks! I liked the color too. I'm considering getting a second copy so that I can keep a set with each of my boxes (I have one for Imperial and one for Rebel), but I think I'll wait until I hear back from them about the 1-turn (I sent them my pictures too). I really like TC as a group of people and a company and tend to support them when possible, so hopefully we can figure this out.

#58 Duke of Advil

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 06:23 AM

Of course, FFG's cardboard templates are all derived from the standard X-Wing movement template, which is made of platinum-iridium and housed at the International Bureau of Weights and Measures in Paris.

Oh, now why'd you have to bring that up?  Now I want platinum-iridium templates......  and range ruler......  and tokens
has anyone tried contacting FFG and asking them for the arc dimensions? If they wont release this info to the public I say we send a small attack squad to Paris and get the standards ourselves......think Endor Moon ROTJ minus the Ewoks.
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EMPIRE SHIPS [TIE Fighters(5)] [TIE Interceptor(1)] [Firespray-31(1)] [TIE Advanced(1)] [TIE Bomber(1)]

REBEL SHIPS [X-Wing(3)] [B-Wing(1)] [A-Wing(1)] [YT-1300(1)] [Y-Wing(1)] [HWK-290(1)]

Vaders Redemption


#59 superdave

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 07:09 AM

 

has anyone tried contacting FFG and asking them for the arc dimensions? If they wont release this info to the public I say we send a small attack squad to Paris and get the standards ourselves......think Endor Moon ROTJ minus the Ewoks.

 

 

Yub yub, commander.


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#60 PenguinBonaparte

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 09:27 AM

I did ask about all this under the rules questions heading, though for some reason didn't think to just directly ask for the exact dimensions. I'll post their reply when I get it.






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