Jump to content



Photo

Rebels: 3 great ships or 4 ok ships?


  • Please log in to reply
56 replies to this topic

#41 Jobu

Jobu

    Member

  • Members
  • 37 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 08:01 AM

I played in a tourney last weekend, went 2-1 and flew a three rebel squad.  One of my wins was against a 7 Tie Swarm, losing only 1 ship to his 7.

 

I was very happy with the performance and enjoyed flying it a lot.  With three ships, you end up taking the fight into the asteroids a lot which is a ton of fun.

 

List:

Luke Skywalker - Proton Torp

Horton Salm - Proton Torp, Ion Cannon Turret, R5 astromech

Tycho Celchu - Concussion Missiles, Push the Limits

 

The secondary weapons are key on this list, I always took out one enemy ship at the Range 3 initial volley before it even got a shot off.  Luke's Proton is kinda mey, but Horton and Tycho have good abilities that enable them to hit hard with the secondaries.


  • SolennelBern likes this

#42 Englishpete

Englishpete

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,777 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 08:10 AM

I took the blaster turret for firepower on the HWK, with Moldy Crow you will have enough focus to do the job.

 

On the subject of more hull/shields is better, I am open minded. I ran my list in a tourney environment of 16+ people and came in second (the Han and 2 Blue list beat me in the final game) and I was up against very experienced players. I beat the several 4 ship Rebel lists as well as mobile Fett with 4 Tie mini swarm and HSF with 2 Gold Ion Y's.

 

It really is all about having fun for me, even at a tourney. My other lists I fly and do well with are Turr, Vader, Fel (won tourney with that) and 4 x Int with Swarm tactics. Neither of those are rocking hull and shields :-)


To every man upon this Earth Death cometh soon or late. And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods?
(Horatius: Captain of the Gate)


#43 AlexW

AlexW

    Member

  • Members
  • 742 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 08:35 AM

That being said, SP is important to rebel fleets.  Four is not better than three if the 4th is just an added ship for a 4th's sake.  Here is my 3 ship fleet that has yet to loose in both casual and organized play.

 

I don't disagree here (IE that the plan is more important than the number of ships) , but the question wasn't "Can a three ship list work?" It's "Which overall approach is better?"

 

I think it's pretty clear cut that there are more four ship builds that work.   There are reasons for that that have to do with the fact that, in general, four ships have advantages over three in terms of point-for-point it is more cost effective.  Upgrades often provide synergies and nice combinations, but usually aren't as cost effective and have a smaller margin of error and lower tolerance for poor luck.  

 

I've certainly seen these lists win, but especially in the hands of newer or inexperienced players I've seen them get obliterated.   So, in terms of a general list building process, I don't think there's any way to really say that three ships is better than four.   I won't go so far as to say the rebels are currently better served with five over four, though;)



#44 Captain_Arrr

Captain_Arrr

    Member

  • Members
  • 95 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 11:22 AM

I think if you have 2 players with equal skill, generally 4 ships beats 3. It is a simple case of attrition. Sure sometimes the 3 ship build comes on top.....but that is only if you roll really, really well on a key round. If your rolls are average, three ships lose whether they fire first or not.

#45 Stone37

Stone37

    Member

  • Members
  • 876 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 04:32 PM

 

That being said, SP is important to rebel fleets.  Four is not better than three if the 4th is just an added ship for a 4th's sake.  Here is my 3 ship fleet that has yet to loose in both casual and organized play.

 

I don't disagree here (IE that the plan is more important than the number of ships) , but the question wasn't "Can a three ship list work?" It's "Which overall approach is better?"

 

I've certainly seen these lists win, but especially in the hands of newer or inexperienced players I've seen them get obliterated.   So, in terms of a general list building process, I don't think there's any way to really say that three ships is better than four.   I won't go so far as to say the rebels are currently better served with five over four, though;)

 

Frequently, I see inexperienced players take the advice that more is better and the low PS of their swarm further magnifies their inexperience.  I would agree with you that running three ships is not for the weak of heart though.  For new Rebel players, I tend to suggest  a 4 ship squad with a nice assortment of PS so they can experience what it's like to move during different times of the activation phase.


Edited by Stone37, 18 February 2014 - 04:35 PM.


#46 AlexW

AlexW

    Member

  • Members
  • 742 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 04:57 PM

That being said, SP is important to rebel fleets.  Four is not better than three if the 4th is just an added ship for a 4th's sake.  Here is my 3 ship fleet that has yet to loose in both casual and organized play.

 
I don't disagree here (IE that the plan is more important than the number of ships) , but the question wasn't "Can a three ship list work?" It's "Which overall approach is better?"
 
I've certainly seen these lists win, but especially in the hands of newer or inexperienced players I've seen them get obliterated.   So, in terms of a general list building process, I don't think there's any way to really say that three ships is better than four.   I won't go so far as to say the rebels are currently better served with five over four, though;)
Frequently, I see inexperienced players take the advice that more is better and the low PS of their swarm further magnifies their inexperience.  I would agree with you that running three ships is not for the weak of heart though.  For new Rebel players, I tend to suggest  a 4 ship squad with a nice assortment of PS so they can experience what it's like to move during different times of the activation phase.

Did anyone suggest that when taking four players should also attempt to minimize PS? I just think the answer to this question is far simpler than you're making it :).

#47 jetsetter

jetsetter

    Member

  • Members
  • 626 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 05:10 PM

I took:

2x Blue sq w/autoblasters
Rookie
Green sq w/VI and assault missiles

Went 5-0, in a pool of 15 players.

The autoblasters chewed through some TIES!

#48 Stone37

Stone37

    Member

  • Members
  • 876 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 05:51 PM

 

 

 

That being said, SP is important to rebel fleets.  Four is not better than three if the 4th is just an added ship for a 4th's sake.  Here is my 3 ship fleet that has yet to loose in both casual and organized play.

 
I don't disagree here (IE that the plan is more important than the number of ships) , but the question wasn't "Can a three ship list work?" It's "Which overall approach is better?"
 
I've certainly seen these lists win, but especially in the hands of newer or inexperienced players I've seen them get obliterated.   So, in terms of a general list building process, I don't think there's any way to really say that three ships is better than four.   I won't go so far as to say the rebels are currently better served with five over four, though;)
Frequently, I see inexperienced players take the advice that more is better and the low PS of their swarm further magnifies their inexperience.  I would agree with you that running three ships is not for the weak of heart though.  For new Rebel players, I tend to suggest  a 4 ship squad with a nice assortment of PS so they can experience what it's like to move during different times of the activation phase.

Did anyone suggest that when taking four players should also attempt to minimize PS? I just think the answer to this question is far simpler than you're making it :).

 

Are you teaching them the game are making it easier for them?  I agree, keeping it to no more than 1 or 2 PS levels in a squad is easier.  But I argue they will learn more by playing a squad that has at least one ship go early, in the middle, and late in the round.

 

To tie back to the OP, if you understand the difference in how to play ships according to their PS; then you can successfully build 3 AND 4 ship squads.



#49 CommanderScrappy

CommanderScrappy

    Member

  • Members
  • 31 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 05:54 PM

I regularly run a 3 ship rebel build. Wedge, Biggs and Chewie. It only leaves 4 points for upgrades but draw their fire is mandatory for Chewie. I placed 3rd at FFG's May the 4th event with it so it is possible to do well with only three ships. You need to fly very well and concentrate fire with your higher pilot skill to eliminate your opponents superior numbers fast. The best advice is to fly what you are familiar and comfortable with. If your list fits your play style then you will do well with it and don't worry about a bad game or two we all have them. Doing well in a tournament is 75% skill and 25% luck. 


  • Stone37 likes this

#50 Englishpete

Englishpete

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,777 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 06:12 PM

Jetsetter my man, I assume you won the Store Championship Saturday?


To every man upon this Earth Death cometh soon or late. And how can a man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers, and the temples of his Gods?
(Horatius: Captain of the Gate)


#51 Ravncat

Ravncat

    Member

  • Members
  • 635 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 06:20 PM

To be fair, I don't think the large ships should count as one ship in this discussion. They're usually worth 1.5-2 small ships I think.

#52 AlexW

AlexW

    Member

  • Members
  • 742 posts

Posted 18 February 2014 - 06:33 PM


I regularly run a 3 ship rebel build. Wedge, Biggs and Chewie. It only leaves 4 points for upgrades but draw their fire is mandatory for Chewie. I placed 3rd at FFG's May the 4th event with it so it is possible to do well with only three ships. You need to fly very well and concentrate fire with your higher pilot skill to eliminate your opponents superior numbers fast. The best advice is to fly what you are familiar and comfortable with. If your list fits your play style then you will do well with it and don't worry about a bad game or two we all have them. Doing well in a tournament is 75% skill and 25% luck.

Good points, but I'll admit when someone asks about three vs. four ship lists I assume it doesn't mean including the Falcon. Though, that does certainly qualify in terms of quantity over quality.

I wanted to add that who knows how this will change with the next wave.

Edited by AlexW, 18 February 2014 - 06:53 PM.


#53 PenguinBonaparte

PenguinBonaparte

    Member

  • Members
  • 344 posts

Posted 20 February 2014 - 12:01 PM

I've been thinking a lot about the pilots I never get to fly, like Ten Numb and Ibtisam, and how 3 slow-moving X-wings that were upgraded made it to the GenCon finals. Some of that was the super-Luke combo, but what about three slow ships like this:

 

Ten Numb with Marksman and Advanced Sensors = 37

Ibtisam with Advanced Sensors and VI = 32

Dutch with an Ion Turret and the generic R2 = 29

 

Could something like that be maneuverable enough in its slow way to stay in the fight and beefy enough to be competitive? 



#54 DraconPyrothayan

DraconPyrothayan

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,835 posts

Posted 20 February 2014 - 01:06 PM

I've been thinking a lot about the pilots I never get to fly, like Ten Numb and Ibtisam, and how 3 slow-moving X-wings that were upgraded made it to the GenCon finals. Some of that was the super-Luke combo, but what about three slow ships like this:

 

Ten Numb with Marksman and Advanced Sensors = 37

Ibtisam with Advanced Sensors and VI = 32

Dutch with an Ion Turret and the generic R2 = 29

 

Could something like that be maneuverable enough in its slow way to stay in the fight and beefy enough to be competitive? 

Any B-Wing with Advanced Sensors is incredibly mobile.

.

Not only do Adv Sensors take the sting out of doing a red maneuver or ship collision, it also can let you barrel-roll (or Boost with an Engine Upgrade, hint hint) BEFORE you move. No-one loves an asteroid field more than a B-Wing with Adv Sensors, and no-one can corner more tightly.

Heck, it's the only build in the game that can back up (with a barrel roll) before turning!
With Engine Upgrades, it also becomes the only build in the game with an Angled Koiogran!
 

However, for the 3rd ship, I'd go with something that doesn't run only 1 agility die. You're highly vulnerable to a Swarm at the moment.



#55 PenguinBonaparte

PenguinBonaparte

    Member

  • Members
  • 344 posts

Posted 20 February 2014 - 01:27 PM

I know the log (huh, an oddly descriptive typo) agility is a problem, but the Bs are going to be the main target regardless, so I'm hoping to use the high PS to take a little of the sting out of the swarm early and either flank or split the Tieball. Like I said though, no idea if that'll actually work. The hope is that then with the ionization and the free target lock from Dutch I can potentially mop up once their initial formation breaks and make my firepower count. 


Edited by PenguinBonaparte, 20 February 2014 - 01:32 PM.

  • DraconPyrothayan likes this

#56 DraconPyrothayan

DraconPyrothayan

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,835 posts

Posted 20 February 2014 - 02:20 PM

I know the log (huh, an oddly descriptive typo) agility is a problem

I actually chortled at this.



#57 Kaimuund

Kaimuund

    Member

  • Members
  • 29 posts

Posted 20 February 2014 - 03:29 PM

I have to agree on the poster above that a Falcon doesn't really count here. Then it's a discussion of how to escort your falcon, which is a large ship plus extras. 

 

Here, the discussion is whether to take 3 named small ships, or 1 named and 3 generics. 

 

I've been hit by both, and I can't vouch for which is stronger. I play Imperials almost exclusively, usually smaller swarms (5 or 6 ships). I feel like make up and ship dress up makes a huge difference, as the assault missile plus b wing ace plus x wing ace combo would be rough. 

 

TheMetalBikini did a nice write up on this same topic here: http://www.themetalb...-vs-4-ship.html






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS