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#1 LordAddamisk

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 02:01 PM

So a few weeks ago I got my hands on the main book and brought the idea of running a game up to some friends who, after a little bit, seem to have really gotten into the idea. Anyway, we've been working on our characters and I've had this idea in my head for a warrior blacksmith who enhances his forging with magic. Started reading through the spell lists and found the spell in earth magic Mineral Control and Transform Mineral that seemed perfect. I fell in love with the idea and have been tweeking my guy based around that idea for the last couple weeks when my buddy pointed out the major flaw. Since the spells have a maintenance cost, the change isn't permanent and the object would just change back at some point... So is there any way to  fix/ get around this problem or am I kinda stuck and need to come up with a new idea?



#2 Nurddude

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 02:21 PM

I am not much of a magic user, so here are my thoughts:

 

1) Those magics only affect low-level materials, and may/may not have to be maintained.

 

2) I play with the Psychic Disciplines, and would suggest going to Psychokinesis and specializing in Atomic Restructuring. You will need to really work towards it, but with Permanent and Temporary investments, all should be fine.

 

EDIT: Also, welcome to the forums! We hope that you can find the answers to anything that you need here.


Edited by Nurddude, 16 February 2014 - 02:51 PM.


#3 LordAddamisk

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 03:46 PM

Thanks, I hadn't looked at the psychic before but yeah, that Atomic Reconstructions seems like it's just what I'm looking for...



#4 Latoshi

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 04:02 PM

Well there is also the fact of changing stuff to gold. Yes while it is a great spell (for con artists) to make quick coin, it isn't stable for long term changes. also when you get to atomic control, I would say that any change you make is permanent. However, this may be because I'm a science guy myself, if you are changing the atoms into atoms of different stuff, radiation might occur from leftover protons or electrons. But that is just me. It is also important to note that the spell Atomic Control, is a divine spell. Which by most accounts will be incredibly difficult for any player to aquire. Of course I am one to aid my players in realizing whatever goals they have in the long run, so long as they have what it takes to seize it.

 

And yes welcome to the forums


Edited by Latoshi, 18 February 2014 - 05:58 AM.

People are not failures simply because they try and fail.

Only when they fail and give up have they truely failed.


#5 Prinnygod

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 12:12 AM

I Have experience in magic user, and on the earth book there is a spell that lets you make a weapon with a base skill in forge depending on the amount of zeon you use, its a good way to forge your own weapons and if the weapon you want its above by 2 grades of dificulty, its a +5 weapon, lets you have some weapons on a +5 quality at a low lv, still you need to first look for the material ou want to use, like you need to buy your own steel, you own black steel or so, but you dont need anything else exept your zeon and the materials, im not aware of anything else that can make anything else besides the PSY Ability of "Atomic Restructuration" that lets you makes practically anything, But you need art if im not wrong in order to make it like perfect, depends on the GM, but for example i let my players pick the atomic restructuration, but one thing its they know how a coin looks, and other that they know how to make it with all the details, i usually make them throw one roll of Art (im not sure if im wrong if i missunderstood the art secondary skill) in order to see how perfect they made it, like ok, you make 200gc for example, (here is were the math starts and sorry if i scramble your brain since you just started) ok, you use atomic restructuration, you make sand in to Gold Crowns, now throw one Art check, this will be how well or how detailed you made the coins, if its to low, the coins looks kind of a golden nugget, but not that big, i dont know if i you get the idea XD

And Welcome to the world of anima! Hope you love it as much as i do! =D :D



#6 Nurddude

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 10:57 AM

Prinny, I agree with how you are using Art with Atomic Restructuring. Forge is used for weapons/items that would benefit from Quality, while Art is used for all other items.

 

Conversely, Art could be used for all items to see how "nice" or precise the details and such are.



#7 Prinnygod

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 07:29 PM

Exactly Nurdude, my players complained the first time i told them xD but thats what art its about, you can try to for example build a cart out of grass or sand, ok go ahead do it, the player pass the potential check and the proyection reach the material he choose to transform, ok now throw your art, why, cause its like you may know how you build a cart, but if your art its not that high, the cart will have weels that are not 100% round, probably the roof looks quite on the side, or so, you need the art to do a good or average cart, if your art its high, the cart its 100% perfect architetually speaking, it eaven has details on the side and some signs around the wheels that look really awesome, anyone would say this cart was made by a master, this would be an example of how the art would work xD 



#8 Latoshi

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 09:00 AM

I would actually argue that science would also be necessary to change the matter to begin with. I mean given the example you are changing sand to gold. Not everyone knows how they need to change the "atom" to be gold. It isn't like that is common knowledge. It makes no sense that you can 'transmute' something without knowing what it is you are transmuting it to. For all the player knows they could have made fool's gold in the transmutation, because without the proper knowledge it would be impossible to direct the matter you are manipulating properly. I still agree that Art and Forging are required for appearance, but as long as you are transmuting one material to another I believe some understanding of what you are changing is necessary....


Edited by Latoshi, 24 February 2014 - 09:06 AM.

People are not failures simply because they try and fail.

Only when they fail and give up have they truely failed.


#9 Prinnygod

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 04:53 PM

Well i understand your point on that, but its not lime the character knows he is changing its atoms, for the characters he is not aware he is changing its atoms, he only knows he can change sand to bread or gold, its not like "oh ill alter the atoms of the sand in order tomcreate gold", probably some characters that posses science migth know what he is doing, but for the mentalist will be "Ill turn this stone in to metal", i wouldnt argue with having any knowledge on science since it comes from a supernatural matter, like the spell that lets you change one limestone in to a golden nugget, if the character has "Natural knowledge of a path" he didnt study how to make the spell or why he can chance the limestone into a golden nugget, he only knows he can change it, "what spell? Not entirely sure, but i know i can do it!" Its kind of the same case here, i understand your point, but its coming from a supernatural power, not from just ability, and actually i would consider that having science would lower the dificulty on art and forge, since you understand the requirements and how its much more that just an ability, having science means youw ould understand perfectly what are you doing and cause of that, the dificulty to do something would lower one grade on the dificulty throwing a high science, probably a very dificulty science to lower it oje level(180).

#10 Latoshi

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 06:54 AM

That sounds more reasonable. Maybe it is because I'm a science kinda person myself. But science playing some role would make sense as you are dealing with altering things on an atomic level. Although I find your reasoning, that it lowers the difficulty of the Art/Forge check by one degree, satisfactory. How about this, pretaining to sciences use in this, you roll science and if you at least make a difficult (120) roll, then you lower the difficulty of the art/forging by one degree, and for every degree of difficulty you roll past 120 reduces the art difficulty by another degree. To a minimum of say..... Moderate (80), as some concept of how it looks has to be present. You could not just completely substitute the craftsmanship of an art with science, so it makes sense to put a minimum at which science can reduce it to.


Edited by Latoshi, 25 February 2014 - 06:55 AM.

People are not failures simply because they try and fail.

Only when they fail and give up have they truely failed.


#11 Prinnygod

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 02:15 PM

Well sounds satisfactory in a way, since its a mental power some how the knowledge of the person wouldnt affect on its mental ability, but understanding what you are doing its important, i would put it on the 180 dificult since its a complicated level and you are asuming that you understand it completly, i understand how you are a man of science and its a factible point, but eaven if you understand you are changing atoms, you wouldnt find any logic on how the atoms of the bread can be made in to stone, and also i would consider it on 180 dificult on the science cause having the ability of "atomic restructuration" already reduces by 2 dificultyes every check of art and forge, and looking at the technology that runs on gaia, it would be probably a complicated and specific knowledge to achieve, but i wouldnt consider an obligatory roll for the character to make something, since i said earlier, it comes from a supernatural power, not from science kit nor laboratory, yet for another example on how probably science shouldnt affect the power of "atomic restructuration" its on the other psy powers, like you dont use a medicine check on the ability "Total Increase" from the "Physical increase" powers in order to probably achieve a higher level or yo "ipunderstand" how the power work and by that knowing how to take advantage of it, psy powers work on a basis that "You can make yourself stronger" how?, im not sure, indo it with my mind, thats the only explanation you will receive, knowledge wouldnt affect that much on mental powers since it doesnt work on the same pattern, on a wizard its knowledge its important cause with that he will be able to use its magic and understand it also, but on the psy powers you dont need knowledge to make fire(if you are have pyrokinesis) thats why i woudnt make it obligatory, but if you want to concider it it might work on 180 if you wish, every Game Master has his own way to see things and apply them in fpdiferent ways to their players.

Edited by Prinnygod, 25 February 2014 - 02:31 PM.


#12 Nurddude

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 04:15 PM

Thank you for this discussion, as it should be useful for a future character. Much obliged.

 

EDIT: I was reacquainting myself with the Science ability, and have some questions.

First, it is impossible to get an Inhuman or Zen score in Science because of Imperium's systems, right?

Secondly, because Science is a knowledge skill, where would you learn about atoms and such? It seems like it would be (almost) impossible, sadly.


Edited by Nurddude, 25 February 2014 - 05:03 PM.


#13 Latoshi

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 09:15 PM

I wouldn't say imperium is stopping such rolls. But you might get a visit from them if word floats around that you have learned so much. Also yes it is a knowledge skill, but it would be stupid if knowledge could only be gained from reading a book. How else would you advance? You can gain knowledge through experimentation as well.


People are not failures simply because they try and fail.

Only when they fail and give up have they truely failed.


#14 Prinnygod

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 09:36 PM

Yes, but thats knowledge, its diferento from how your mind works, you wont find books on "How to do telekinesis" thats were i am going, thats why i would not consider that much the science skill about it, but you can as we posted before, its probably acceptable, its like "how you do it?" you answear "Its magic my friend, it cant be explained" kind of like that, thats why i say, the knowledge wouldnt affect your mental capasity or mental powers.



#15 Latoshi

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 09:43 PM

Well that post was more of in response to Nurddude. As he was referring to purely science. I do not recall me implying that psychic powers or magic is fueled by knowledge. Yea it is magic, magic by all accounts breaks reality, psychics do pretty much the same thing. I more of stated that it would be helpful towards the use of some of the powers. But psychic powers are a bit weaker than magic is in its regards, as it lacks the reality breaking aspect of it I suppose. For example, the spell atomic control is a divine spell capable of manipulating everything around that cast as he sees fit and magic seems to disregard everything reality states is law. So yea there would be absolutely no repercussions of doing such a thing as changing like Iron to water. But psychic powers do not ever seem that strong, while yes they follow the same structure as magic they do not seem so reality breaking. The power atomic restructuring seems to me like it wouldn't handle or remove any of the possible implications for changing matter into something else, as to my knowledge I don't think there is any psychic power capable of removing things from existence. So radiation may be a problem or destabilization. While magic can literally create things from thin air and remove things just as easily, that does not seem to be an issue. But psychic matrices don't seem to have even that capacity. And yes you may argue pyrokinesis, cryokinesis, electromagnetism, and Light technically that isn't creating something from nothing.... that would just be the 'excitation' or slowing of the stuff already there to induce energy. They don't really create or destroy matter.
Please correct me on this if necessary


Edited by Latoshi, 25 February 2014 - 10:05 PM.

People are not failures simply because they try and fail.

Only when they fail and give up have they truely failed.


#16 LordAddamisk

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 11:24 AM

Alright, I'm back with new questions now so here goes...

 

1- One of my players says he wants to zen out his Style ability... Can he do that and what would that do?

2- In the case of a Jayan Nephilim with a size of 22 and strength of 10, when he uses a one handed weapon, is it the same size/ stat set up as for the normal char or would his one handed be most peoples two handed?



#17 Latoshi

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 11:03 PM

1- sacrifice primary DP to pump into secondaries, Use natural bonuses, reduce the cost of style by taking aptitude in a subject to get a 1 for 1 cost on it. But in all honesty style is more of a thing that is there, its hold is more RP based more than anything. That being said I also believe it is a passive skill, which is prompt for the GM to roll it behind the scenes.

 

2- if his strength is enough to wield it in one hand then it would be okay for him to wield. Now mind you that does not mean his one hand will be most peoples two handed. The concept behind two handed weapons is while you may be able to wield them in one hand they are still large and unwieldy which is offset by a high strength. Because you can use your strength modifier to push the speed of said heavy weapons.


People are not failures simply because they try and fail.

Only when they fail and give up have they truely failed.


#18 LordAddamisk

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 10:35 AM

Thank you again! Yeah, we can't figure out if he's joking or not... Says he at least wants to look like a bad ass even when he's getting stomped into oblivion...



#19 Latoshi

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 08:35 AM

Well, Looking like a badass is one thing. Having the grace of a god is another. I would say end point of that kind of style would be like 160-180 ish. Like as the book describes it having zen level style is like the very environment moves in rythm with your fighting. Like every move could be accompanied by a lightning strike (If such whether was there).


People are not failures simply because they try and fail.

Only when they fail and give up have they truely failed.





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