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z-95s vs tie fighters


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#21 Ihavebadluck

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 10:12 AM

what if they try to be at range 3 when first in range target lock, and then close in the next round and focus and then fire off the missles?



#22 dvor

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 10:22 AM

what if they try to be at range 3 when first in range target lock, and then close in the next round and focus and then fire off the missles?

a) Someone will be destroyed before shooting his missile.

b) Next round you may be at range 1 of the target. Then you cannot use the missile.


Edited by dvor, 17 February 2014 - 10:23 AM.

X-wing is played over a series of game rounds. Turn is a type of maneuver.


#23 Ihavebadluck

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 10:27 AM

oh.. right. never mind then. I figured at range 3 the tie fighters are unlikely to score 4 hits on them but I guess if they all fire on the same one it's possible.



#24 That One Guy

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 10:32 AM

 

I hope not though. Otherwise it kinda feels like this next wave is watering down the things that made each faction interesting and unique. Rebels trying their hands at swarms is one thing, but being just as good or better at them would feel wrong.


I disagree with that completely. If an expansion doesn't add something to the game or a faction that was not an option before, it's a waste of an expansion. For rebels to play swarm, it has to be a viable approach competitively. Currently, the math behind the headhunter swarm simply isn't up to snuff. In not generally one that uses the math as an excuse, as this IS a dice game. It COULD turn out to be a great approach, and sometimes the dice favors one player over the other. AND there are still cars from the wave that we haven't seen yet. I am not dismissing the headhunter as a useful and powerful addition to the game, as we won't know till it's on the table. I just see it as a cheap missile boat or a squad filler.

The meta is currently " TIE swarm" and " things that beat TIE swarm." I HOPE this wave changes that, and I think the headhunter is the best chance we have to that effect. The other ships are powerful, but we have seen before that highly priced superiority craft do not give players incentives to choose them over multiple fragile ships for the same price.

Still the most important thing to remember: there are many cards in this wave we haven't seen up close.

 

Um… I feel like you're not actually responding to what I said. By "feel wrong" i mean the Empire fights with swarms. That's what they do. They largely don't care for the lives of an individual pilot, so they don't mind throwing a ton of disposables into the fray. The rebels DO care. They really don't have the manpower or resources to throw carelessly into battle. To have them suddenly start chucking cheap fighters callously into battle seems odd to me. As for watering down? Yeah I still feel justified. The Empire now has a heavily shielded fighter without an evade action. It's Action bar is essentially a b-wing. Meanwhile the Rebels now have a swarm ship and essentially an Interceptor with shields. In short, the Empire is now doing the things the Rebels do, and the Rebels are doing what the Empire did. You're telling me that doesn't seem a little bit like watering down to you?


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#25 VanorDM

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 10:38 AM

You're telling me that doesn't seem a little bit like watering down to you?


No, because the Z-95 is still a superior ship to the Tie Fighter. Not by much mind you, but a 1v1 and I think the Z-95 would likely come out on top. When you consider how old the Z-95 is compared to the Tie that's a fair accomplishment.

Also even though it's not the rebel's nature to throw people away like the Empire. That doesn't mean they'v never made a last stand with inferior equipment.

I don't forsee a lot of 8 Z swarms out there. But if someone wants to play one, I fail to see how this really hurts the game as a whole. Even if the Z-95 was nothing more then a Tie in everything by name, this doesn't really hurt the game. But in this case a Z Swarm won't fly the same way that a Tie Swarm does.
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#26 That One Guy

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 10:47 AM

I never said anything about the game being hurt. I'm just talking about feel here, dude. That's all. As in how I personally feel about this game, and that I can't help but think that (as cool as this wave is) things are starting to creep a bit. I watched Magic do it. And really, any game that lives long enough creeps. There's no getting around it.

 

As for single ship superiority, I don't really agree. That evade token and barrel roll count for a lot. But I can't really say for sure since we don't know the dial yet. 



#27 Deadwolf

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 10:48 AM

One other thing that hasn't been mentioned is the dial. Specifically, I fully expect the Z-95 to have a 1 straight and 1 banks which I feel helps the Z-95 in this matchup as it makes it much easier to focus fire. Espessially when things get tight.



#28 VanorDM

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 10:51 AM

As in how I personally feel about this game, and that I can't help but think that (as cool as this wave is) things are starting to creep a bit.


I was talking about my feelings too. If someone says a game or something is getting watered down, that typically means they think game suffers.

I think both factions will still be different enough that people will play one or the other for the differences they offer.

#29 That One Guy

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 10:58 AM

 

As in how I personally feel about this game, and that I can't help but think that (as cool as this wave is) things are starting to creep a bit.


I was talking about my feelings too. If someone says a game or something is getting watered down, that typically means they think game suffers.

I think both factions will still be different enough that people will play one or the other for the differences they offer.

 

I hope so. I like this game, and I don't want it to turn into X-Wing: The Gathering.


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#30 VanorDM

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 11:06 AM

I hope so. I like this game, and I don't want it to turn into X-Wing: The Gathering.


That's a very reasonable feeling. :) Myself I got out of MtG some time ago... Somewhere around Ice Ages and Mirage.

So far one thing FFG has seemed to do an exceptional job of is keeping powercreep out of the game. Unlike 40k I don't feel the need to buy wave 4 stuff just to stay competitive.

#31 That One Guy

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 11:29 AM

There, that's a good point. This stuff may be good, but you don't need it just to be able to stand a chance.

 

I think my perspective, in terms of this board, is a tad skewed. Many times people talk about certain builds or tactics and I don't agree because it would seem to me that my games are very…. how to say… far outside the meta?

 

1. I stopped running TIE swarms ages ago and have been experimenting with a wide variety of new ships and builds.

 

2. Interceptors aren't only viable, they're amazing. Their speed, maneuverability, evade tokens and Soontir Fel pushing the limit almost always work well in many given scenarios. (yes, even against YTs.)

 

3. Something something dark side something something.

 

4. Almost never run a squad that is only one ship type. I usually have a mix of named TIEs, Interceptors, and support/stand out ships. Firesprays, Vader, Shuttles, switching out different builds or pilots for hurt, action denial or medium range support. I've said it before many times, my squads don't tend to be completely cohesive single builds, but instead modules that can be swapped out or re-paired with other modules.

 

Insofar as I can tell, this sets me somewhat apart from many people in this forum, and even further apart from tournament level meta. But all of the above can be ascribed to the fact that my pool of opponents is extremely limited. Only recently have I gotten to play games with other people at stores, and none of them have the experience that my friend and I do in terms of sheer number of matches played. it is only natural that this would push the evolution of my strategy in a different direction. I hope that makes you understand me better, and helps you see where I am coming from when I happen to oppose you (or anyone else on this forum really) on some matter or another.


Edited by That One Guy, 17 February 2014 - 11:30 AM.


#32 Engine25

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 11:49 AM

I hope not though. Otherwise it kinda feels like this next wave is watering down the things that made each faction interesting and unique. Rebels trying their hands at swarms is one thing, but being just as good or better at them would feel wrong.


I disagree with that completely. If an expansion doesn't add something to the game or a faction that was not an option before, it's a waste of an expansion. For rebels to play swarm, it has to be a viable approach competitively. Currently, the math behind the headhunter swarm simply isn't up to snuff. In not generally one that uses the math as an excuse, as this IS a dice game. It COULD turn out to be a great approach, and sometimes the dice favors one player over the other. AND there are still cars from the wave that we haven't seen yet. I am not dismissing the headhunter as a useful and powerful addition to the game, as we won't know till it's on the table. I just see it as a cheap missile boat or a squad filler.
The meta is currently " TIE swarm" and " things that beat TIE swarm." I HOPE this wave changes that, and I think the headhunter is the best chance we have to that effect. The other ships are powerful, but we have seen before that highly priced superiority craft do not give players incentives to choose them over multiple fragile ships for the same price.
Still the most important thing to remember: there are many cards in this wave we haven't seen up close.
Um… I feel like you're not actually responding to what I said. By "feel wrong" i mean the Empire fights with swarms. That's what they do. They largely don't care for the lives of an individual pilot, so they don't mind throwing a ton of disposables into the fray. The rebels DO care. They really don't have the manpower or resources to throw carelessly into battle. To have them suddenly start chucking cheap fighters callously into battle seems odd to me. As for watering down? Yeah I still feel justified. The Empire now has a heavily shielded fighter without an evade action. It's Action bar is essentially a b-wing. Meanwhile the Rebels now have a swarm ship and essentially an Interceptor with shields. In short, the Empire is now doing the things the Rebels do, and the Rebels are doing what the Empire did. You're telling me that doesn't seem a little bit like watering down to you?

I don't think so, because from a have design point of view it makes perfect sense for each faction to have a ship that fills the same basic role, as long as each ship is unique.
Just another stuck up, half-witted, scruffy-looking Nerf-Herder bidding you, Fly Casual.

#33 Englishpete

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 12:23 PM

Using the Z-95 as a support ship, this is a pretty reasonable list. It will allow you to soften up a target or two with Dutch and Garven, then both Z-95 should be able to fire with TL and Focus in the same round.

 

After the missiles are away, you can still dog fight.

 

29 points
"Dutch" Vander
R5 Astromech, Ion Cannon Turret
 
30 points
Garven Dreis
R2-D2
 
20 points
Bandit Squadron Pilot #1
Homing Missiles, Hull Upgrade
 
20 points
Bandit Squadron Pilot #2
Homing Missiles, Hull Upgrade

Edited by Englishpete, 17 February 2014 - 12:23 PM.

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