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#1 New Zombie

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 02:24 PM

hi there,

 

just to clarify. the stun (active) quality (page 157) is not absorbed by soak. correct?

 

thus shock gloves if hitting successfully and generating 2 advantage apply 3 strain to the target ignoring soak.



#2 Jegergryte

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 02:34 PM

That is my interpretation yes. I also believe it's the correct interpretation. :ph34r:
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Make sure your brain is engaged, before putting your mouth into gear.

"What about the future...? We can only hope, we cannot however account for the minutiae of the quanta, as all accidents in an infinite space are inevitable."

GMLovlie's/Jegergryte's Cubicle direct link to supplements here.


#3 NicoDavout

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 02:51 PM

Agreed. Otherwise it would make Stun Gloves pretty useless.


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Han Solo shot first, midichlosomething do not exist, Rebel Alliance was created as in the WEG books and indoctrination theory is the true ending of ME3.

#4 awayputurwpn

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 03:27 PM

Yep. Only damage is soaked, and that Strain is not damage. 



#5 NicoDavout

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 03:34 PM

Yep. Only damage is soaked, and that Strain is not damage. 

 

Except for the Stun Damage (Passive) quality, there Soak works normally.


Han Solo shot first, midichlosomething do not exist, Rebel Alliance was created as in the WEG books and indoctrination theory is the true ending of ME3.

#6 awayputurwpn

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 04:25 PM

 

Yep. Only damage is soaked, and that Strain is not damage. 

 

Except for the Stun Damage (Passive) quality, there Soak works normally.

 

Correct, because it is damage :)



#7 New Zombie

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 05:20 PM

thanks! man that makes one of the enemies in beyond the rim particularly nasty



#8 AgentJ

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 05:33 PM

which enemy?


Edited by AgentJ, 15 February 2014 - 01:41 PM.


#9 New Zombie

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 03:29 AM

there is something with energised claws that deal 10 stun

#10 MandalorynOranj

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 10:40 PM

The cyber-nexu is what he's referring to. One of the cybernetic enhancements is metal-sheathed claws, which not only up their normal damage by a fair few, but also adds Stun 10.



#11 Ahrimon

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 12:43 AM

I'd play it by ear.  If it's a form of physical attack as opposed to mental/psychological soak should be applied regardless of the source.



#12 MandalorynOranj

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 08:00 AM

I'd play it by ear.  If it's a form of physical attack as opposed to mental/psychological soak should be applied regardless of the source.

No it shouldn't. The active Stun quality describes it as dealing strain to the target. The passive Stun quality describes it as strain damage, and specifically calls out that soak applies. Since the active one is listed before the passive one, if they had meant that to be generalized they would have listed it in that one. Soak applies to damage, which can be in the form of strain damage, but active Stun doesn't cause damage, just strain.



#13 Jegergryte

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 08:27 AM

I'm sort of with Ahrimon on this. I get your point Manda, but playing it by ear makes sense, but using the rules as written as guidelines is a matter of fact, just as most (good) RPGs used to have it explicated that the rules presented in the book weren't there to stop anyone from having fun, so if a rule would ruin the game for a given group, remove it, change it or tweak it. At some point though, this seems to have stopped and a lot of players - some of mine for instance, way back in the day - see the rules as some sort of religious text to be followed to the letter... and games have been made with this in mind too, although EotE doesn't seem like such a rigid game, far from it. Which is a good thing.


Make sure your brain is engaged, before putting your mouth into gear.

"What about the future...? We can only hope, we cannot however account for the minutiae of the quanta, as all accidents in an infinite space are inevitable."

GMLovlie's/Jegergryte's Cubicle direct link to supplements here.


#14 MandalorynOranj

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 08:35 AM

I totally agree with you about playing by the spirit as opposed to the letter of the rules, but this specific rule I think works better as the letter. Take shock gloves, for instance. You get hit, strain damage applies, you soak it, great! But then the electricity arcs from the gloves, across your body, and shocks your nervous system. How is your armor going to protect you from that? The point of the active Stun is that you've already hit them for physical damage, and now something else (typically electricity) is arcing from the physical source into your body. That's why it bypasses soak, because the impact of the shock gloves or stun claws or whatever was just the delivery method.



#15 Jegergryte

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 08:44 AM

Definitely. Same with the claws. Although I can also see the point in allowing soak to be applied in some cases. Anyway, it's no biggie.


Make sure your brain is engaged, before putting your mouth into gear.

"What about the future...? We can only hope, we cannot however account for the minutiae of the quanta, as all accidents in an infinite space are inevitable."

GMLovlie's/Jegergryte's Cubicle direct link to supplements here.


#16 Ahrimon

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 11:15 AM

Someone slaps you in the chest, square in your armor that is designed to absorb a energy, but it should bypass the armor because it's active?

Sorry, Madalorynoranj but your example sounds exactly like what armor should do. It's an insulator. The electricity shouldn't arc across it.

#17 Jegergryte

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 12:21 PM

A hit on the chest like you mention doesn't include 2 adventages ;) or if it did that armour has been thoroughly pierced, all the way through. ;) the active quality requires 2 advantages on a successful hit to have effect...

Make sure your brain is engaged, before putting your mouth into gear.

"What about the future...? We can only hope, we cannot however account for the minutiae of the quanta, as all accidents in an infinite space are inevitable."

GMLovlie's/Jegergryte's Cubicle direct link to supplements here.


#18 Ahrimon

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 12:54 PM

True. But full auto requires two advantage to activate a second hit so should it also bypass soak? Or perhaps any punch should ignore soak with two advantage because you've pierced the armor? I just think that most, depending on the source, physical attcks should be covered by armor. I could accept the argument that non armor soak wouldn't apply, but there are movie examples of tough guys shrugging off stun type attacks so I'm a bit more on the fence with that one.

Eote is a more abstract game so im ok with the rules in the book. I'm just (academically) arguing from a more realistic point of view. The rules don't have to make sense to have fun. It would be nice if they did, but such is life. :)

Edited by Ahrimon, 17 February 2014 - 12:56 PM.


#19 Jegergryte

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 01:08 PM

No, auto-fire shouldn't ignore soak, because it's up to several additional hits. An obvious difference in my book. As of now the only weapon that causes soak-ignoring strain causes 3 strain. Of course the two advantages needed to activate the quality can also be spent doing other things. The realism you mention seems more like determinism to me ;)

Make sure your brain is engaged, before putting your mouth into gear.

"What about the future...? We can only hope, we cannot however account for the minutiae of the quanta, as all accidents in an infinite space are inevitable."

GMLovlie's/Jegergryte's Cubicle direct link to supplements here.


#20 Zenoth16

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 02:51 PM

True. But full auto requires two advantage to activate a second hit so should it also bypass soak? Or perhaps any punch should ignore soak with two advantage because you've pierced the armor? I just think that most, depending on the source, physical attcks should be covered by armor. I could accept the argument that non armor soak wouldn't apply, but there are movie examples of tough guys shrugging off stun type attacks so I'm a bit more on the fence with that one.

Eote is a more abstract game so im ok with the rules in the book. I'm just (academically) arguing from a more realistic point of view. The rules don't have to make sense to have fun. It would be nice if they did, but such is life. :)

 

Think of it as this: the shock gloves have already hit and had the soak applied to the physical damage. The shock then kicks in and hurts them more from the electric jolt. So in the same hit you have the soak applying only once. Now for auto-fire you have a shot that hits and soak applied. Then the auto-fire triggers and you get another, completely separate, hit that soak would then apply to.

 

Basically to some up my point is that soak should only apply once per hit.






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