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Unreliable item plus Dwarven Engineering Invention

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#1 DurakBlackaxe



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Posted 14 February 2014 - 03:57 AM

Say you have a gun with Unreliable 2 and you have a Invention called a scope, inventions come with unreliable 2. Say you roll your dice you get 2 chaos stars,


which of these happen?


1. Weapon blows up


2. Invention breaks


3. Both happen

Edited by DurakBlackaxe, 14 February 2014 - 03:58 AM.

#2 princeearwig



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Posted 14 February 2014 - 07:21 AM

I've asked a similar question.

I think it all revolves around whether you consider the chaos stars to be consumed in the act of triggering.

#3 princeearwig



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Posted 14 February 2014 - 07:35 AM

Durak, after rereading the sections covering Banes/Boons and the like I think I am interpreting it that only 1 occurs.

Which one is wholly up to the whims of the ref though as all negative effects are decided on by the Ref.


I seem to recall there are circumstances where a symbol can trigger two things but as I cannot find any examples I can only presume my memory of these exceptions is flawed and is due to the predations of chaos!


#4 r_b_bergstrom



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Posted 14 February 2014 - 08:37 PM

There are a handful of situations where a symbol can do more than one thing / get used without getting used up...

  • Channeling in Reckless Stance
  • "Measure Twice, Cut Once" Talent
  • "Frenzied" Condition
  • A couple special rolls in various adventures, like TEW's traveling rules if memory serves correctly.
  • Probably some other cards that are escaping me right now - you might check the miscasts, the locations, and maybe the Hedge or Dark Magic rules

The all say something like "in addition to the usual effects of rolling that symbol". If something is meant to not use up the chaos stars,  it uses language like that.  It's usually really called out in unmistakeable language.


Now look at the text of the description for Unreliable... notice where it says "This is in addition to any other effects." That's not as crystal clear as it could be, but it is close to the wording in the examples above.  So, sadly, it seems that guns will technically explode without using up the chaos stars. Yuck. They were bad enough without that. Don't know why FFG has so much hate for guns. Pay 5 to 10 times as much with the only benefit being 1 point of pierce, and it can also blow up in your face! Sad.

#5 princeearwig



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Posted 15 February 2014 - 04:17 AM

I knew I recalled it from somewhere.

I am not going loony ;P

This does mean that I am however becoming more capricious as I now think its number 3.

#6 thePREdiger



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Posted 17 February 2014 - 07:50 AM

I dont think that "This is in addition to any other effects." applies within the world of inventions.


imo, within the world of created items (runes, engineered items) only one would go *boom*

#7 Gazery



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Posted 17 February 2014 - 02:34 PM

I'm starting to think that the wording of "This is in addition to any other effects." Refers to other effects of the other dice in the pool. So if you roll 3 Success, 2 Boons and 2 Chaos Stars, then you would hit as normal, but would also fail your Unreliable quality. But not also gain more badness from rolling 2 Chaos Stars (summon a greater daemon or grow an extra limb)


This would also mean that you would only suffer from one of the Unreliable traits not both as the Chaos Stars would be used up by one of the Unreliables. I guess it would be up to the GM as to witch Unreliable would 'blow up'.


Just my two-penneth on the debate.

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