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Khorne Berserker archetype question


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#1 DarkHunter888

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 05:30 PM

So, in the starting skills you get common lore (war), but you also get this for being a space marine.  Does one cancel the other, or do you gain common lore (war) +10 effectively?



#2 BrotharTearer

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 08:11 PM

If something turns up twice, it's an error. They don't get "bumped up" (because you always have the same race and archetype combination).



#3 Drachdhar

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 09:27 AM

You get +10 Common Lore(War). If a skill turns up twice, once in Race and once in Archetype they are indeed added together to net you a +10. Thats the way such issues have been handled before, and the way they should be handled.

Granted, it would have been smarter to just put in Common Lore(War) +10 right off the bat for 'zerkers. But sometimes certain things are just very poorly written.



#4 BrotharTearer

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 02:44 PM

You get +10 Common Lore(War). If a skill turns up twice, once in Race and once in Archetype they are indeed added together to net you a +10. Thats the way such issues have been handled before, and the way they should be handled.

Granted, it would have been smarter to just put in Common Lore(War) +10 right off the bat for 'zerkers. But sometimes certain things are just very poorly written.

 

This is incorrect.



#5 Drachdhar

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 02:56 PM

It is? Could you please point out where you got that info? I am really wondering here, not trying to be sarcastic or anything :)



#6 BrotharTearer

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 06:48 AM

An advanced archetype is always the same race. If the 'same skill + same skill = better skill' thing applied, then you'd always get better skill, because there's no alternative. Which means the better skill would be listed in the advanced archetype. It's not. Logic dictates what's in the archetype is the final starting skill, unless it's lower than what's in the race (which will never happen as far as I know, because races don't start with +10/+20 in any skills). If there's redundancy (as in this case), it's just an editing error, until otherwise stated, and should not be increased like you say — because that's not a rule.


Edited by BrotharTearer, 22 February 2014 - 06:49 AM.


#7 Drachdhar

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 01:08 PM

By the same token, leaving out +10 from that skill could be an editing error.

 

In any case, that would mean we are both wrong since there is no rule favoring either way. In which case people can make up their own damn minds until an errata surfaces, which by the look of things will be never...

 

 

The closest analogue would be Rogue Trader in this case. In that game it IS clearly stated that if you receive the same skill from more than one source you gain Skill Mastery in that skill. So my hypothesis at least has precedence in previous 40k titles whereas yours is pulled out of the thin air. ;)



#8 BrotharTearer

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 03:18 AM

Yes, but in Rogue Trader you can mix and match different origins and classes. That's not the case in BC, which means it's not a valid precedent. In BC a package is ALWAYS the same. Human Archetypes and CSM Archetypes. A fixed Race + Archetype schema leaving no room for 'upgrading' skills.



#9 Tenebrae

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 05:56 AM

By the same token, leaving out +10 from that skill could be an editing error.

I consider this to be the most likely situation by far

...as well as disagreeing with BrotharTearer's argument...



#10 BrotharTearer

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 06:08 PM

 

By the same token, leaving out +10 from that skill could be an editing error.

I consider this to be the most likely situation by far

...as well as disagreeing with BrotharTearer's argument...

 

 

Then that's a houserule. But going by what is written, what I say is correct.



#11 Terraneaux

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 05:07 PM

Then that's a houserule. But going by what is written, what I say is correct.

 

 

It's also 100% true that something about the author's intent did not match what was printed there, since the skills are redundant.  You're not actually correct or incorrect; what's going on here is that the printed material is incorrect, and so we're interpreting a fix, a houserule.  And that's not less correct than what you're doing, because you're interpreting as well; there is no non-houseruled way to play a Khorne Berzerker because of that inherent error in the rules.


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