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HOW do we dealing the critical damage correctly ??


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#1 Pgorell

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 05:35 AM

Hey we had a game last night it was our 6th game, and we have not got the it right as yet.
He rolled 3 attacks and got 2 damage and 1 critical damage.
Then i rolled my 3 defenses 1 blank, 1 evade and 1 focus and had 1 evade token.
So we were left with 1 critical damage.
On the card it said:
Minor explosion immediately roll one attack dice on a hit suffer one damage then flip this card facedown.
I then rolled and got a focus on the dice. So my understanding is the card should be discarded!.
He thought I should take the facedown damage and the critical damage which in this case would kill my ship. If i am right, my ship is still alive by 1 hull point.
Who is right ???
Cheers pgorell

#2 Spaceman91

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 06:15 AM

The way i see that is you just take the crit ( which is turned face down because it failed to get a hit ) that's it.
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#3 Rob Jedi

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 06:22 AM

You are rolling for extra damage, you were lucky. You then flip it face down and it's still one damage you don't get to discard the crit card.


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#4 pgarfunkle

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 07:23 AM

Yep from the dice roll you take the critical damage

 

You performed the roll for the minor explosion and avoided taking any additional damage

 

Once this was completed you should have flipped the damage card face down next to the ship

 

End result 1 normal damage


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#5 blade_mercurial

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 07:26 AM

You are rolling for extra damage, you were lucky. You then flip it face down and it's still one damage you don't get to discard the crit card.

Yeah critical hits always deal 1 damage (like a facedown damage card) plus the effects described by the card's text. In your case you avoided the effect and the card instructs to flip it facedown, becoming like a normal damage card, but it doesn't say discard. The only way to discard damage cards is with special abilities, like Chewbacca (crew card), but they are relatively rare.

Edit: page 16 of rulebook describes critical hits.

Edited by blade_mercurial, 13 February 2014 - 07:27 AM.

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#6 QuinnCee

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 07:31 AM

Ok adding on this topic, sorry, but if I have, say an X-Wing with full shield, and I take the card he just described. Would I then roll my die (if the condition is met) then flip that card down, but since I had full shields, I could actually discard after flipping face down or does the critical automatically become 'hull damage' without shields mitigating it?


Edited by QuinnCee, 13 February 2014 - 07:32 AM.

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#7 Rhinoviru3

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 07:32 AM

Ok adding on this topic, sorry, but if I have, say an X-Wing with full shield, and I take the card he just described. Would I then roll my die (if the condition is met) then flip that card down, but since I had full shields, I could actually discard after flipping face down?

 

Critical Hits are treated as regular damage if the craft is still shielded; so effectively a crit only becomes a crit when it is hitting hull


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#8 Stone37

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 07:33 AM

Ok adding on this topic, sorry, but if I have, say an X-Wing with full shield, and I take the card he just described. Would I then roll my die (if the condition is met) then flip that card down, but since I had full shields, I could actually discard after flipping face down?

If you receive a critical damage but have a shield, the shield negates the critical damage.  You just loose a shield point.  In other words, damage cards are only dealt to mark hull damage.  Shields are removed before damage cards are dealt.  Damage cards will only be dealt to a ship once it has lost all of its shield tokens.

 

The best advice I can give to new players is slowly follow the turn order instructions, step by step.  Confusions like this one often happen because players assume what the mechanics of the game are.  Once you fully understand the mechanics and turn order of events, cards and abilities should then be less confusing.  


Edited by Stone37, 13 February 2014 - 07:36 AM.

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#9 pgarfunkle

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 07:35 AM

No if you have a shield this absorbs the hit/critical hit and so no damage card is dealt either face up or down

 

Edit: Wow them's some fast responses


Edited by pgarfunkle, 13 February 2014 - 07:36 AM.

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#10 QuinnCee

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 07:38 AM

Thanks Pgorell for starting this topic. Had that same question for a while and kept forgetting about it until it came up again in play. Thanks guys for some succinct answers. 


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#11 Engine25

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 07:55 AM

It has a small chance to work like a Direct Hit in that it has a 50% chance to deal 2 damage instead of 1.  If the additional attack die roll fails, you still MUST take the first face down damage card.  If he rolled a hit, you take TWO face down damage cards.


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#12 SolennelBern

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 07:55 AM

Hey we had a game last night it was our 6th game, and we have not got the it right as yet.
He rolled 3 attacks and got 2 damage and 1 critical damage.
Then i rolled my 3 defenses 1 blank, 1 evade and 1 focus and had 1 evade token.
So we were left with 1 critical damage.
On the card it said:
Minor explosion immediately roll one attack dice on a hit suffer one damage then flip this card facedown.
I then rolled and got a focus on the dice. (1) So my understanding is the card should be discarded!.
(2) He thought I should take the facedown damage and the critical damage which in this case would kill my ship. If i am right, my ship is still alive by 1 hull point.
Who is right ???
Cheers pgorell

 

(1) Where on the card it says to discard it if you don't roll a hit?

You got hit by a crit, the card said roll a die and on a hit take an extra hit then flip this card facedown.  A facedown card is a damage.  So you take 1 damage and got lucky you didn't roll a hit for an extra damage.

 

Card text in all the cards is pretty clear.  If it doesn't say to discard, you keep it.

 

(2) You don't take 2 damages.  You take a crit damage.  Hits and crits are similar, it's still only one hit and the only difference is that a hit is always facedown and a crit give you an extra effect to suffer.  1 Hit = 1 facedown card with no futher effet / 1 Crit = 1 face up card and resolve it's effect.

 

Example: Your ship has 3 hull left.  You get hit by 1 Hit and 1 Crit after rolling your green dice.  First you take 1 facedown card for the Hit and then you resolve 1 face up card for the Crit.  So we'll take your example card et you roll a focus, which results in no extra hit from the crit.  After resolving the Crit card, if like yours it says to turn it face down you simply flip the card.  So at the end of this combat you'll have suffer 2 damages total and be left at 1 hull.


Edited by SolennelBern, 13 February 2014 - 08:04 AM.

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#13 Khyros

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 09:00 AM

A crit be should always be more desirable (as the attack) than a hit.  Since a crit always does 1 damage, it theoretically should be at least as damaging as a hit.  Often times the crit is meaningless - muntions failure on a ship with no secondary weapons, whatever the pilot card that negates all EPTs and pilot text on a rookie, etc, so it ends up being just the same as a hit.

 

But occasionally, a crit can be a blessing for the defender.  The most common would be the PS0 on a blocker, especially if you previously weren't moving first (think losing init when you have an ORS w/ APL vs. a swarm).  The other instance I can think of would be  the "receive a stress" ... which if it happens on Fel, he receives a focus token... which he could use on the next attack, and spend it to save him from what would have been death (I'm still PO'd at that happening).  

 

I can't think of any other instances where one would rather have dealt a hit than a crit (except for DtF, but that's a different story since it's part of the defender's build and he spent points to get that feature).  

 

 

But more often than not, a crit can be devastating... mutitions failure on a HWK (or Y wing)... less so on folks with HLC or Torps/Missiles since the torps could have just as easily missed (well, maybe not APTs) and all that can take an HLC have a quality primary weapon anyways... the ignore your EPT/pilot ability... on pretty much any named pilot... It sucks on Tycho because you probably have 5+ stresses built up and now you can never take an action again, which will mean that you're a very dead A wing with 1 hull remaining.  But it pretty much sucks on everyone.  Then there's obviously the direct damage, and minor explosion which can do 2 damage, which is great!  And the stunned pilot or damaged engine which can really screw with the piloting of the craft.  

 

But yeah, it sucks when the rare occasion happens that defender gets a crit that helps him out.


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#14 SableGryphon

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 09:41 AM

 

But occasionally, a crit can be a blessing for the defender.  The most common would be the PS0 on a blocker, especially if you previously weren't moving first (think losing init when you have an ORS w/ APL vs. a swarm).  The other instance I can think of would be  the "receive a stress" ... which if it happens on Fel, he receives a focus token... which he could use on the next attack, and spend it to save him from what would have been death (I'm still PO'd at that happening).  

 

I can't think of any other instances where one would rather have dealt a hit than a crit (except for DtF, but that's a different story since it's part of the defender's build and he spent points to get that feature).  

One more I can add is Blinded Pilot on a ship (shuttle) with FCS and Gunner. First attack, roll no dice. Get Target Lock. Roll full dice for second attack. Use Target Lock.


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#15 Hoosteen

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 10:49 AM

But occasionally, a crit can be a blessing for the defender.  The most common would be the PS0 on a blocker, especially if you previously weren't moving first (think losing init when you have an ORS w/ APL vs. a swarm).  


This happened to me last night.
First time ever trying a tie swarm. Really enjoying it, raining doom on Han Solo, then he got the PS0 card. Flew right where I wanted to be. TIE PILE!!!!
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#16 Khyros

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 11:09 AM

Out of curiosity - looking at damaged cockpit, I'm assuming that's an on going effect since it never says "then flip this card over."  But I just wanted a concensus on that, since it does say "after the round in which you receive this card," which obviously implies that it doesn't take effect until next round (prevent Han from shooting twice in one round)... but it's not 100% clear as to whether its effect starts next round, and then stays around for forever, or if it's effect is just for the next round.

 

Text of the card is - Damaged Cockpit: "After the round in which you receive this card, treat your pilot skill as "0""


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#17 CrookedWookie

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 11:14 AM

Takes effect next round, stays put unless you have a way to flip it over.


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#18 Khyros

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 11:16 AM

Takes effect next round, stays put unless you have a way to flip it over.

 

Is there a way to flip down a pilot card?  Determination gets rid of it.  Chewy flips them down right away.  R5 flips down ship cards.  So even if saboteur flipped the card up on a chewy / pilot w/ determination - there's no way to flip it back down?  And Chewy crew discards it when it is dealt...


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#19 CrookedWookie

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 11:31 AM

 

Takes effect next round, stays put unless you have a way to flip it over.

 

Is there a way to flip down a pilot card?  Determination gets rid of it.  Chewy flips them down right away.  R5 flips down ship cards.  So even if saboteur flipped the card up on a chewy / pilot w/ determination - there's no way to flip it back down?  And Chewy crew discards it when it is dealt...

 

Oof, yeah I guess that one may be entirely hypothetical.


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#20 StevenO

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 01:14 PM

Some special crits information:

Determination can discard "Pilot" criticals before they ever land. One of the few cases where scoring a crit may be worse than scoring a hit.

 

Saboteur can turn a face down damage card face up.  This then triggers that affect which with Minor Explosion could result in more damage as the card is resolved.

 

Chewie (both forms) deal with incoming damage cards.

 

Proton Bombs deal face up cards to a ship.  There is no "dealt X damage" with them so they go under any shields a ship may have which makes them very powerful.  

 

Regarding shields, once a ship is dealt a card having shields restored does NOT get rid of cards.  If you have Luke with R2-D2 and a Shield Upgrade you could potentially see Luke flying around with two damage cards (on his 3 hull!) and 3 shield tokens; it would take 4 "damage" to down him unless you could slip something like a Proton Bomb on him to get him another card or turn a "Direct Damage" card faceup on him.


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