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Deck: BEORN!


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#1 Tracker1

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 09:54 AM

In this deck Beorn pretends to be Caldara, but he does not need an army or allies to take care of business.  If he is destroyed, he only gets more ferocious.  Strategy Below. Note: Deck name should be pronounced very loud with a deep, guttural, growl that trails off and ends abruptly at the end, scratching your fingernails across the table is optional. It will help get you ready to play the deck.   :D

 

Hero (3)

Beorn (OHaUH) x1

Eowyn (Core) x1

Glorfindel (FoS) x1

 

Ally (3)

Gandalf (Core) x3

 

Attachment (15)

Ancient Mathom (AJtR) x3

Light of Valinor (FoS) x3

Rivendell Blade (RtR) x3

Resourceful (TWitW) x3

Unexpected Courage (Core) x3

 

Event (32)

A Test of Will (Core) x3

Dwarven Tomb (Core) x3

Elrond's Counsel (TWitW) x3

Feint (Core) x3

Fortune or Fate (Core) x3

Hasty Stroke (Core) x3

Foe-hammer (OHaUH) x3

Gondorian Discipline (EaAD) x3 Using this as Proxy for spoiled Close Call

Lay of Nimrodel (TMV) x3

Quick Strike (Core) x3

Hidden Cache (TMV) x2

 

 

Strategy:
Beorn defends attacks until he is removed from play, then bring him back with Fortune of Fate.  A few cards will delay his demise though, and should be save for the right moments, against the right enemy.  The spoiled Close Call works really good in this deck turning damage in to threat is not a problem with Spirit threat reduction.  Quick Strike played with Glorfindel and a Rivendel Blade or two can usually take care of an enemy before it attacks. Feint, will by some time too. Your last resort is to bring him back with FoF, since it is costly.  But that is taken care of by the other main strategy in the deck.  
 
Eowyn and Resourceful.  Yeah, Resourceful is an expensive card, but this is the type of deck where resources pile up, and you might not even play any cards for the first few rounds.  Put all copies of resourceful on Eowyn, and with Lay of Nimrodel she will blow through most Willpower quest stages alone, and she will have plenty to spare to bring back our unfriendly bear.  This deck  probably will not do well on battle/siege quests, but for willpower quest it is not a problem.
 
Card draw is the other critical component, and it is not so bad.  That is really the main reason  Gandalf is in the deck,  Foe-Hammer, and Ancient Mathom can keep the cards coming,  and Hidden Cache is just there to draw another card for a resource, it's probably the first card to be replaced if something better comes along.
 
Unexpected Courage should be played on Glorfindel to take care of multiple enemies, but playing one copy on Eowyn might not be a bad idea for a scenario like JaTA.  
 
Overall, it is a pretty fun deck, the big test was Morgul Vale, which it defeated on it's first 2 tries.  Quick strike with Glorfindel and a Rivendel Blade was pretty key for the Nazgul.

 

Okay, I have posted lot's of new decks recently, I'll try and hold off until VoI arrives, but I thought this one was pretty cool and worth sharing.

 

Questions, comments and suggestions are always welcome.


Edited by Tracker1, 11 February 2014 - 10:27 AM.

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#2 booored

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 11:41 AM

I ran this deck for a while, a recursion deck with beorn is so obvious it is practically the only deck he can function in, much like Caldara... I guess that is my main problem with this game. There is no originality in the deck building. The pool is so small that the choices in deck design is nearly non existent. In most LCGs we get 20 player cards a ap and 150ish in a deluxe. In this game we get 9 cards a ap and 11 cards a deluxe. The result is that it is impossible to read a deck post that you havn't already built yourself. As in the core design, it is only the fluffy stuff like a few choices in allies or attachments that differ.

 

There was a lot of copies of this deck showing up a while ago, but the resulting carnage on the forums about if fortune of fate could target him at all put him out of style until the official ruling came in through the faq allowing it. That and dwarves being so bonkers, which also came out the same time.

 

I think it is a pretty good idea to go back to these old decks and re-tool them with modern cards. I figure the game has another year maybe 2 before there is real deck building choices and some of these kind interesting decks will gain some power beyond the basic combo. Still, going back to these old "curiosity" decks with the larger pool is a cool idea.


Edited by booored, 11 February 2014 - 11:51 AM.

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#3 camacazio

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 12:15 PM

Sure, there aren't many deck possibilities if you aren't creative. Beorn is really fun in tons of different decks.



#4 booored

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 12:22 PM

creativity has nothing to do with it. It just pisses me off that the card pool is so small and expands so slowly that it is impossible to open a deck thread and not see practically the exact same deck you made yourself ages ago. There simply isn't enough card choice to make meaning full changes and the pool expands so slowly that the same card percolate for so long that the permutations of those cards get utterly exhausted.

 

I've been saying it for ages, we need pure deluxe expansions of player cards. Inject 150 at a time like Netrunner or CoC gets. Then people like tracker would be able to do some real deck building.


Edited by booored, 11 February 2014 - 12:23 PM.

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#5 monkeyrama

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 12:30 PM

I guess that would expand the pool a lot. 

 

Having said that, this kind of critique does arise from a certain type of player. One of the things that keeps me with this game, at the expense of every other LCG or CCG that uses a theme/world/whatever I like, is that the card-pool grows slowly. I don't have much time to play the game, or build endless decks to playtest (I'd love to playtest, but I don't do that, I play, when I can) that if more cards came out to make it like every other LCG or CCG, and I would definitely stop playing. And buying, more to the point. 

 

Given that the feature of the game that keeps me playing is the scenarios, I really hope that FFG keep producing good scenarios. And then I can run Tracker's decks against them, since they're always more fun than the ones I design myself! :)



#6 Tracker1

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 12:33 PM

creativity has nothing to do with it. It just pisses me off that the card pool is so small and expands so slowly that it is impossible to open a deck thread and not see practically the exact same deck you made yourself ages ago. There simply isn't enough card choice to make meaning full changes and the pool expands so slowly that the same card percolate for so long that the permutations of those cards get utterly exhausted.

I've been saying it for ages, we need pure deluxe expansions of player cards. Inject 150 at a time like Netrunner or CoC gets. Then people like tracker would be able to do some real deck building.

I did a quick search here and at BGG to see if i could find other exampes of a deck like this, and could not find much, yes the combo is obvious but i only see one other deck that uses the same heroes, but FoF is not even in the deck. I enjoy looking at early deck ideas from other players, so if you have any links post them.

Curious observations you bring up, yes the card pool is small, and there are similar deck ideas, but I have never seen two players create the exact same deck card for card. These small changes in card choices are where different players playstyles become clear, and hopefully these differnt changes give opportunities for players to discuss different chocies and strategies they are using with the same overall deck design. For me differnet players interpertations of the same deck archtype keep deck building fresh, breaks my ruts, and gives me new ideas. It's one of my faviorite parts of this game, and I am greatly looking forward to what the card pool will be in 2 years, but for now it is moving at a snails pace.

Let me know how this deck differs then yours, you probably did not use Close Call, since that is not even released. Was your only ally Gandalf? I am sure ther are differences. What chocies did you make that might help make my deck better? To me thats what a discussion of strategy is. Not to sound confrontational Boored, but you make this game sound so boring, makes me wonder why you play if the chocies are so obvious.

Edited by Tracker1, 11 February 2014 - 12:36 PM.

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#7 booored

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 12:36 PM

Well of course there is no card for card version of a deck, but the core idea of the deck are always the same. The only differences are small choices in allies or attachments. (pretty sure I already said that)

 

Having said that, this kind of critique does arise from a certain type of player. One of the things that keeps me with this game, at the expense of every other LCG or CCG that uses a theme/world/whatever I like, is that the card-pool grows slowly. I don't have much time to play the game, or build endless decks to playtest (I'd love to playtest, but I don't do that, I play, when I can) that if more cards came out to make it like every other LCG or CCG, and I would definitely stop playing. And buying, more to the point.

 

I guess that is a fair enough point. I have also run into a lot of LoTR players that are not into deck construction. I think this game has a bit of cross genre appeal, as in many players are NOT card game players.. Maybe the slowly expanding pool is deliberate for that reason?


Edited by booored, 11 February 2014 - 12:39 PM.

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#8 Chris51261

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 02:17 PM

Isn't this the only LCG where it's just you up against a deck, rather than another person? If they released 150 new player cards every deluxe expansion, there's no way the scenarios could keep up. I think the game would die if it went at that pace.

#9 chuckles

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 02:27 PM

 

Okay, I have posted lot's of new decks recently, I'll try and hold off until VoI arrives, but I thought this one was pretty cool and worth sharing.

 

Questions, comments and suggestions are always welcome.

 

Feel free to post more decks!!

 

I have really enjoyed playing a number of decks that, you have created/rejigged or variants of them. Most recently using the mono spirit Caldara one (which i paired with mono tactics, that included Beorn, to defeat morgul vale)...  looking forward to trying this deck too.

 

Lay of Nimrodel on Eowyn can get insane 


"Do not believe him! He has lost all power, save his voice that can still daunt you and deceive you, if you let it."

 


#10 Gizlivadi

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 02:46 PM

creativity has nothing to do with it. It just pisses me off that the card pool is so small and expands so slowly that it is impossible to open a deck thread and not see practically the exact same deck you made yourself ages ago. There simply isn't enough card choice to make meaning full changes and the pool expands so slowly that the same card percolate for so long that the permutations of those cards get utterly exhausted.

 

I've been saying it for ages, we need pure deluxe expansions of player cards. Inject 150 at a time like Netrunner or CoC gets. Then people like tracker would be able to do some real deck building.

 

Hear him, for once, hear him very well! I've thought of pure-player-card products before because this game direly needs a solution to this problem. The card pool is extremely small and grows extremely slow as well. There is something that needs to be done about it, but maybe that deserves another thread.


"A straight road lay westward, now it is bent."


#11 iznax

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 05:43 PM

booored i disagree with you completely and i'm not going to tell what i think i'll tell this: i play some card games and i have played in some tournaments and guess what, in other card games with "huge" card pulls and over 100 people playing in a tournament i have seen about 8 to 9 really different decks in the last lotr tournament i played there was 12 players (6 teams) and i saw 10 completely different decks, so now i will say what i think, its a mater of quality not quantity, if we think about the "real/playable" card pull of a card game lotr has a good one, the complete dead cards that no one ever uses are about 3% to 6% in other card games its over 60% to 70%

 

P.S. sry for my english again ;)


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#12 lkb57

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 06:15 PM

This actually sounds like a really fun deck to run. I'll have to give it a try . . .



#13 booored

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 06:39 PM

I'm not saying there isn't deck archetypes that become pervasive in a card game.. this is a given and as you say is the entire bases for the competitive scene. You have completely not understood what I am saying. I'll try again in a more simplistic way that is easier to understand. Maybe the English barrier was in the way.

 

In ALL TCGs, deck types rise to the top and in competitive play and the cycling of these top decks is what creates the ever changing meta of deck creation, deck counter creation and deck innovation. That is NOT what is happening in this game. In this game there aren't deck floating to the surface that are stronger than the others. There are ONLY those decks in the game period.

 

A great example is Calandra. EVERY player made the spirit recursion deck in the first few seconds of getting her. Everyone. There is simply no other (at this time) way to play that hero efficiently. The designers have been forcing mono decks, her ability works best in mono decks and requires the ability to fill the yard. When you take those things into account.. there is only ONE deck. The pool is so small that if you put in every card that plays in to that combo you only need to cull a few to get to 50. It is nearly as simple as picking every card available.

 

The revival of Dunhere with those tactic weapons for a easy 7attack into the staging area... obvious. EVERYONE made that deck as well,  for the same reasons.. there are simply not enough options to find cleaver combos.. they are all standing right there in the open.

 

This game has had 18ap and 3 Deluxe Expansions. If this was Call of Cthulhu we would by now have 810 player cards added to the pool (heroes mixed in) instead we have 213 player cards (not counting the saga expansions, it would be 246 vs 1260 then). There is NO WAY you can convince me that we as players would not have better tools and more interesting combinations to play with if the pool was expanding at a decent speed. Tracker1 is a great example of someone who I consider a talented deck builder.. If the card pool was crossing 1000+ at this point imagine what he would be doing, coming up with combinations that take us all by surprise.. instead he is producing decks that total beginners can make at first glace.

 

When pools grow to a certain size the players find combinations and synergies the designers could never predict. Deck Builders like Tracker1 in a way BECOME part of the design team as their decks expose abuseive combos and direct the meta in a way that the entire community responses to. In LoTR the designers direct the deck trends in a way that is unprecedented in comparison to other deck construction games. Not only is the heavy reliance on tribes forcing combinations .. I mean look at the Oulands decks.. to make that ubr powerful deck what do you do.. you basically just grab ALL the Oulanders.. that doesn't take skill. Anyway, So tribes, the recent forcing of mono and finally in combination with that is cards that are quest specific.. anyone ruining those "underground" triggers recently? No.. of course not. This reduces the card pool even more. AND you have quests forcing card choices, with things like Siege and Battle. So not only is the card pool small the quests dictate deck trends. Trends that in a normal game come from the players, but in this case come from the designers.


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#14 Tracker1

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 07:23 PM

I don't think that deck building is as simple as you make it sound for this game. Boored I certainly see what your saying. There are some cards that are just very obvious to build around and they just scream in your face how obvious it is, so I put the deck together with that obvious intention of how it is supposed to work, and then I just keep tinkering and play testing it until it is working how it feels best to me and my play style. The deck can often be quite different from what it started out like, and a few card changes here and there can make a big difference even from scenario to scenario, so some things may be very obvious to a beginning deck builder, but when it comes to creating the deck and moving it towards its most optimal point is a whole other story of the process that a beginner will not have much experience with.

In terms of Caldara deck you say every one went out and made that recursion deck. Until I posted my version i was only aware of one other player Beorn that had posted a deck, and when I first got her card I did not want to touch it. I thought it was the worst card ever, and it sat unnoticed for months. Yes the combo was obvious, but it is one thing to see the potential and another to invest the time and energy to make the deck work properly for my tastes. I bet the vast majority of players never touched that card until there were a few decks out there pointing to a tangible starting point. This certainly seems to be the case from what i have seen posted in threads related to that deck.

As for Dunhere, yes another obvious combo with daggers and spears, but there are a lot of different ways to build a deck around that. I used two hobbits, but I have seen many other decks with a different and equally good line up of heroes to support the archetype.

As much as i would love more cards, I think it does not fit well with the pace of the game. The only thing i think that would be cool is if we could by an expansion of all the player cards for a cycle at the beginning and then just have scenarios released afterwards. I hate having to wait months to see how a trait will be boosted, meanwhile my deck just struggles along waiting for that one card in AP 6. But I guess that adds to the replayability and to the suspense of what player cards/heroes that we will see.
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#15 booored

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 08:20 PM

This is exactly how I think it should be done as well. Pure player cards as deluxe expansions and then quest packs that ONLY have quest cards. The only reason they do it the way they do is to force you to buy every pack they ever make.. no matter how crap a quest is. Looking at you Hills!

 

There is no arguing that some players are better at deck construction than others... and you are one of these players... but that only illustrates my point. From those people that are skilled, they are ALL making the same decks. This is lame and it pisses me off!

 

 Until I posted my version i was only aware of one other player Beorn that had posted a deck,

 

Posting a deck doesn't mean anything. Remember 1/2 the players do not get a pack as soon as it is released and from the ones that do many do not get the packs for sometimes months after the US release in their country.


Edited by booored, 11 February 2014 - 08:21 PM.

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#16 Narsil0420

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 10:17 PM

Whatever anyone else says, I really appreciate Tracker1's creativity and interesting deck design, it's given me a lot of new ideas.
Keep on truckin' !
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#17 Gizlivadi

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 11:35 PM

booored i disagree with you completely and i'm not going to tell what i think i'll tell this: i play some card games and i have played in some tournaments and guess what, in other card games with "huge" card pulls and over 100 people playing in a tournament i have seen about 8 to 9 really different decks in the last lotr tournament i played there was 12 players (6 teams) and i saw 10 completely different decks, so now i will say what i think, its a mater of quality not quantity, if we think about the "real/playable" card pull of a card game lotr has a good one, the complete dead cards that no one ever uses are about 3% to 6% in other card games its over 60% to 70%

 

P.S. sry for my english again ;)

 

Maybe mechanically there are a lot of decks but I think that thematically the options are still very narrow are there aren't really enough options for true diversity within an archetype, like there are, for example, very few possible Rohan decks, and all of them have pretty much the same 70% core (not as in core set) cards. And most of the other archetypes are really underdeveloped and not very viable.


"A straight road lay westward, now it is bent."


#18 Gizlivadi

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 11:49 PM

@booored: I think that the Caldara phenomenon happens in all TCG's since designers are always enforcing new deck types (or bringing other back to life), but the problem with this game is that while there are always "overpowered" decks at a given time (first it was dwarves, now it's outlands), due to the lack of competence in the game these decks do not try to defeat each other, and thus there are no obsolete decks to be replaced by the current one, which makes the different archetypes and powerful decks to just keep piling up, and adding to the pool of deck options, of which are all viable because all are good, because the other decks do not compete against them. Dwarves are still an amazing deck, and while Outlands may be better the dwarf deck is still good, it doesn't have to try to become better since archetypes are never really "nerfed", though there are others that might be better. If they can already beat most scenarios and are really good decks, they are never going to become obsolete. I think this explains the fact that there is no real "metagame" and deck "cycles". 


Edited by Gizlivadi, 11 February 2014 - 11:49 PM.

"A straight road lay westward, now it is bent."


#19 GrandSpleen

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 12:32 AM

Somebody ought to change the title of this thread.  There is a lot of excellent discussion going on in here that is super easy to miss if you aren't interested in a Beorn deck!

 

For once booored and I are in agreement.   There are a lot of cool decks posted in these forums, but if you take 5 decks that use Dunhere with his daggers, the beating heart of the deck is going to be identical regardless of whether you use Hobbits, Rohan, or Gondor.  Those traits certainly alter the feel and nuance of the deck, but if you are the type of player who sees the core, engine, mechanic, driving force of a deck, and not the kind of player who latches to theme, subtlety, and flavor of a deck, then you'll be, at least, dissatisfied with the variety of decks available for construction in the current state of the game.

 

I'm a mediocre deckbuilder on my best day, so I actually appreciate the obvious combos like those to be found in the Dwarven synergies or Dunhere + Daggers of Westernesse.  But I, too, am looking forward to a day when it is not unusual for the more creative and perceptive deckbuilders to take us by surprise...

 

(edit cuz I mixed up thread titles)


Edited by GrandSpleen, 12 February 2014 - 05:14 PM.


#20 wlk

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 02:47 AM

Whatever anyone else says, I really appreciate Tracker1's creativity and interesting deck design, it's given me a lot of new ideas.
Keep on truckin' !

 

I subscribe very much to this !

I don't have the time/creativity nor energy to build decent player decks, so I have played a lot with tracker1's decks recently, with minor changes here and there, and this has been a great gaming experience.

I don't really care if the decks/ideas are unique or not (especially when playing solo), I only want them to be fun and somewhat efficient.






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