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What removes a Stealth Device?


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#21 Buhallin

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 09:48 AM

Or you could maybe just dispense with all the "simple" shorthand and understand what being hit by an attack means :P

It's not really complicated to remember once you get past the initial understanding.
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#22 StevenO

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 02:05 PM

Though there are plenty of situations where you don't actualy roll any defence dice and can still be considered hit. Any ship with just 1 agility being attacked by Wedge or suffering the cirtical hit that reduces your agility f.ex.

 

Not sure how you define "plenty" of situations.  At present no ships have 0 agility dice so adding Stealth Device will bring them up to at least 2.  Now Wedge may get to ignore 1 die but that would still leave one.  I guess if you can sneak a critical hit onto the Stealth Ship that could reduce the agility but how many ways are there to do that?  You've got the Proton Bomb.  I guess you could draw enough [crits] and [hits] from other sources to chew through a ship's shield and land the right card face up on the hull without actually getting attacked but that is pretty rare.

 

I'm going out on a limb and saying the number of times someone has fired on a Stealth Device equipped ship but the target not had the opportunity to roll any agility dice is less than 100.  Of those I imagine the number of times that the Stealth Device's survival mattered could be counted on one hand.  It can happen but the chances of it being an issue is likely less than 0.001% or to put it another way 99.999% of the time it doesn't happen.  If there are "plenty of situations" where a SD equipped ship is going to be targeted and unable to roll any defense I want to hear what they are.



#23 CrookedWookie

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 02:56 PM

Removal of a Class IV Stealth Device should only be attempted by a certified Kuat Drive Yards technician.  

Untrained tampering may invalidate your starship warranty.


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#24 Smuggler

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 03:10 PM

 

Though there are plenty of situations where you don't actualy roll any defence dice and can still be considered hit. Any ship with just 1 agility being attacked by Wedge or suffering the cirtical hit that reduces your agility f.ex.

 

Not sure how you define "plenty" of situations.  At present no ships have 0 agility dice so adding Stealth Device will bring them up to at least 2.  Now Wedge may get to ignore 1 die but that would still leave one.  I guess if you can sneak a critical hit onto the Stealth Ship that could reduce the agility but how many ways are there to do that?  You've got the Proton Bomb.  I guess you could draw enough [crits] and [hits] from other sources to chew through a ship's shield and land the right card face up on the hull without actually getting attacked but that is pretty rare.

 

I'm going out on a limb and saying the number of times someone has fired on a Stealth Device equipped ship but the target not had the opportunity to roll any agility dice is less than 100.  Of those I imagine the number of times that the Stealth Device's survival mattered could be counted on one hand.  It can happen but the chances of it being an issue is likely less than 0.001% or to put it another way 99.999% of the time it doesn't happen.  If there are "plenty of situations" where a SD equipped ship is going to be targeted and unable to roll any defense I want to hear what they are.

 

In my second post just a bit under the one you quoted I gave an example of how the situation could happen (B-Wing + SD + DTF). But I admit "plenty of situations" is an exegration. I failed to include the extre die from the stealth it self when I made that statement. Sorry about that.



#25 VanorDM

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 03:24 PM

I failed to include the extre die from the stealth it self when I made that statement. Sorry about that.


I didn't consider that 2nd dice either, so StevenO is correct in that it's pretty rare for that to happen. But like Buhallin says, the rule is pretty clear once you understand what a Hit really is. So there really isn't need for a shorthand way to look at it.

#26 StevenO

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 04:55 PM

In my second post just a bit under the one you quoted I gave an example of how the situation could happen (B-Wing + SD + DTF). But I admit "plenty of situations" is an exegration. I failed to include the extre die from the stealth it self when I made that statement. Sorry about that.

 

 

 

That's why I'm pointing it out.  By the time the B-Wing with DTF has drawn enough crits off of other ships, while somehow avoiding being shot at, that the agility lowering crit lands on it I'm afraid that after the "no defense" attack goes through there really aren't going to be enough hits left that I'd be too worried about it.



#27 Buhallin

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 05:17 PM

Just because there's nothing today doesn't mean there won't be tomorrow. Again, it's not that hard a rule, so why argue for a zero benefit shorthand that could bite us in the future?

#28 Scurvy Lobster

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 02:28 AM

What might happen in the future is quite hard to live by...

 

The reason I made a simple way of expressing the rules are that you can't expect every player to read the rules as thoroughly as we sometimes do in here.

 

During a game it's easier to have a simple (but still solid) explanation ready if someone says you lost your SD when you really didn't... You can always pull out the ruleset and go al rule-crazy but I prefer settling it fast and easy. In my experience people will settle for a good explanation from an experienced player rather than stopping to read rules.



#29 Bazinga

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 04:56 AM

What might happen in the future is quite hard to live by...
 
The reason I made a simple way of expressing the rules are that you can't expect every player to read the rules as thoroughly as we sometimes do in here.
 
During a game it's easier to have a simple (but still solid) explanation ready if someone says you lost your SD when you really didn't... You can always pull out the ruleset and go al rule-crazy but I prefer settling it fast and easy. In my experience people will settle for a good explanation from an experienced player rather than stopping to read rules.




Before the game if you have any questions about your opponents squad or your own thats the time to ask for an explanation. During the game is not the time to have a argument about the rules, this tends to be when the heated arguments occur.

#30 Scurvy Lobster

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 06:13 AM

Yes you generally deal with all that before the game. But you usually don't get questions on specific things like the topic of this thread until the situations actually happen. In reality an opponent sees your Stealth Device upgrade(s) and thinks "well, I know what they do", right up to the point in a game where a difference of interpretation actually happens.

 

When that happens you need to have a good explanation ready. Since it is your squad and strategy being questioned you are also expected to know the fine details of flying it. I haven't seen heated arguments before/during/after any X-wing games but as most other players I prefer to settle disputes quickly rather than to spend time re-reading the fine wording of the rules.



#31 dbmeboy

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 06:18 AM

Ok, so here's a shortcut we can agree on:

 

You lose stealth device if and only if the ship with it is defending against an attack and has less [evade] results than the sum of the [hit] and [crit] results of the attacking ship.*

 

*Future cards may still introduce exceptions.


Edited by dbmeboy, 21 February 2014 - 06:19 AM.


#32 Smuggler

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 07:50 AM

And that is pretty darn close to the rule book defenition of being hit so... Again, not realy a "shortcut" :)



#33 dbmeboy

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 08:39 AM

And that is pretty darn close to the rule book defenition of being hit so... Again, not realy a "shortcut" :)


Mostly because there isn't a shortcut. Stealth device is removed by being hit, substitute in the definition of hit and you have what causes stealth device to be removed. Any shortcuts beyond that lead to misunderstanding the card and the term "hit" which lead to errors when things come up. After all, it is quite possible to be hit by an attack and take 0 damage as well as to take damage from an attack that did not hit you.




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