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#1 ak-73

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 12:28 AM

To make it more like the TT version and stop it from being the one-stop shop psy attack, use these stats:

 

Make psychic shooting attack as outlined in the Smite description. (Use WP+5xPR instead of BS.) However, the attacks has the following stat line (the librarian does get no bonus for full-auto to the to-hit roll):

Smite Psy Attack 10xPRm –/–/7 1d10+3+PR E 11

 

 

What is the effect of that? Specialization on overcoming personal armour rather than toughness. Also, it makes Librarians really long for their chapter-specific powers to hurt certain enemies.

 

Alex


Edited by ak-73, 18 February 2014 - 04:19 AM.

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#2 ak-73

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 06:26 AM

Too bad I can't rename the thread (can I?) because I'd like to expand it to fixing psy powers in general.

 

Force Dome:

After Smite, Force Dome needs fixing. Invulnerable saves in TT generally translate to Force Field mechanics in DW.

So, with that in mind, an average Force Dome needs to be better than Combat Shield, worse than Iron halo and about on par with the Terminator field. Since plenty of scaling is involved and we'd rather keep it simple, I suggest a Force Field strength of PRx5. This is subpar for beginning characters, especially if not pushed, but grows more powerful than the TT version. So for average ranks it should be right.

 

It's another nerf after Smite, right? Librarian players might curse and cuss? Maybe. But this will make some powers much more useful, including Force Dome.

 

Sustaining Psy Powers:

A character can sustain a Psy Power with a Free Action. He must express his intend of doing so when declaring his actions for his turn. After his actions have been declared, he must pass a WP test to sustain the power. -20 for Fettered, +20 for Pushed. If failed, the Psy Power ends immediately - before the other actions get resolved.

 

 

Does anyone have other offending powers in mind? Bring it on in here.

 

Alex


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#3 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 03:27 PM

I am 99% sure that "creature" here does not mean "living thing," but just "object." (which BTW was the priginal meaning of the word "creature" :) fun irrelevent trivia there). There is no reason conceptually for it to only affect living things (whatever that is -- not Necrons?)



#4 Alrik Vas

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 03:44 PM

I think they just meant that smite doesn't affect vehicles?  Does it have the warp quality?

 

And yes, it's super busted and kills entire squads of Astartes if they're close enough to each other.



#5 ak-73

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 04:03 PM

One shouldn't base everything on the TT but my Smite works against everything that the TT Smite works against. Actually more as it can affects a tank's crew which gets abstracted away in the TT.

 

But as mentioned, the main point is giving a power a similar niche as in the TT, not being 100%ly the same. Smite should be good for low toughness with high armour. For higher Toughness use Avenger, Chapter Powers or Vortex of Doom.

 

Any thoughts on the sustaining psy powers issue? Would that allow overly powerful actions by a psyker?

 

Alex


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#6 Alrik Vas

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 09:55 AM

Sustaining is buff, it really doesn't drag you down that much at all.  But it's deathwatch/black crusade, everything is super powered so i'm not sure if it's really an issue.



#7 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 02:02 PM

I think they just meant that smite doesn't affect vehicles?  Does it have the warp quality?

 

And yes, it's super busted and kills entire squads of Astartes if they're close enough to each other.

 

It's completely unclear what they meant, but since there is no conceptual reason for it to not affect vehicles (or robots, or rocks) I think the description is just color.

 

It doesn't have WW.



#8 ak-73

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 03:00 PM

Sustaining is buff, it really doesn't drag you down that much at all.  But it's deathwatch/black crusade, everything is super powered so i'm not sure if it's really an issue.

 

Losing a Half Action for sustaining is a major issue. It often makes a power more or less useless. Anyway, I am concerned over allowing the combination of Force Dome and Full-Auto Attacks by the Librarian.

 

 

It's completely unclear what they meant, but since there is no conceptual reason for it to not affect vehicles (or robots, or rocks) I think the description is just color.

 

It doesn't have WW.

 

I disagree. Smite causes lightning bolts to fly at enemies. Not at objects. I consider modifying the mechanics of Smite: revert to original PR in meters as radius but making a seperate attack against any enemy in that radius. Previously I only rolled one attack against the target and if that hit, everyone in radius was struck by Smite. that was over-powered.

 

So, next Psy Power.... which other power can make a librarian near invulnerable? Right, Force Barrier (Dark Angels).

 

Force Barrier is basically a super-powerful invul save, right? So this calls for Force Field-like mechanics.

 

Force Barrier:

I would say that while the power is sustained, the librarian can once per turn negate an enemy attack completely by using WP+PRx5 (basically from the original Focus Power test)  in place of a Dodge. This means that Full Automatic attacks require 1 DoS per hit, just like a normal dodge. You just don't use AG but WP+5xPR to absorb the attack.

 

 

Thoughts about any of this?

 

Alex


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#9 Alrik Vas

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 03:43 PM

Does the text in the book actually say "creatures, not objects" or is that extrapolation based on it not also saying objects?



#10 ak-73

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 03:52 PM

"Smite must be targeted at a single creature. [...] Any creatures within 1 meter x PR of the target will also be affected by Smite."


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#11 Avdnm

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 02:26 AM

I think sacrificing a half action to sustain a psy power is more than fair. The psyker is very powerful anyway, so giving him this half action back is wrong IMO. The psyker in my group tends to sustain multiple powers at the moment, like force dome and iron arm (which even gives him an additional parry-reaction). I really don't want to know what he'd do if he had another half action every round...



#12 ak-73

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 05:42 AM

Lots of powers are not really worth it if you lose the ability to do Multiple Attacks or Full-Auto. Might of the Ancients is a good example. Which means players won't even learn them and select others.

 

Alex


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#13 Avdnm

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 06:00 AM

Might of the Ancients is a good example.

 

I don't think so. An attack with a force sword + focus, pushed by Might of the Ancients is quite deadly and can make a lot of sense, for example against a master level enemy. If you want to focus your force sword attack, you first have to do damage at all, so Might of the Ancients is very useful. Multiple Attacks won't help that much against high armour and toughness.

Besides, as I said psykers are already quite powerful. If some of the powers don't bring that much of a benefit( but still a benefit at all ) I think there is nothing to complain about.


Edited by Avdnm, 13 February 2014 - 06:02 AM.


#14 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 06:53 AM

Guys.

 

Forget about "creature." The primary meaning of the word according to Oxford is "animal, not human," so if you want to read it literally Smite does not work on human beings. :) The word "creature" in the text means nothing other than "target of attack."

noun
  • 2a person or organization considered to be under the complete control of another: the village teacher was expected to be the creature of his employer

3 archaic anything living or existing: dress, jewels, and other transitory creatures



#15 ak-73

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 07:26 AM

Guys.

 

Forget about "creature." The primary meaning of the word according to Oxford is "animal, not human,"

 

So an animal, person or fictional being. Well, the meaning of the RAW text is clear: it does not work on inanimate objects.

 

 

 

 


I don't think so. An attack with a force sword + focus, pushed by Might of the Ancients is quite deadly and can make a lot of sense, for example against a master level enemy. If you want to focus your force sword attack, you first have to do damage at all, so Might of the Ancients is very useful. Multiple Attacks won't help that much against high armour and toughness.

Besides, as I said psykers are already quite powerful. If some of the powers don't bring that much of a benefit( but still a benefit at all ) I think there is nothing to complain about.

 

 

 

Ah, I disagree. Those powers that are not so strong are normally those that need to be sustained. And the OP psy powers are being reined in in this thread.

 

I'll rewrite the entries for Smite above so that it gets its original radius back but will only target creatures and reword the sustaining of powers so that all sustained powers come down if you fail the WP test.

 

Alex


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#16 Avdnm

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 08:23 AM

Ah, I disagree. Those powers that are not so strong are normally those that need to be sustained. And the OP psy powers are being reined in in this thread.

 

Sorry, but I still won't agree with you, too :)

 

First of all, the ability to sustain a power in itself makes the power very strong, as it let's you use the benefits of multiple force powers at once.

 

Second, as I think my example shows, how strong a psy power is depends on the situation and how it is combined.

 

Furthermore, I think we all agree that a psyker has to concentrate to sustain his power. I'd say that's concentration he has to take off from the battle, which costs him half an action.

 

Also, your changes will cause sustained powers to fail by WP-test a lot. And to me that looks like a psyker who isn't capable of controlling his powers, which is not really what I except from a SM Librarian.



#17 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 11:39 AM

 

Guys.

 

Forget about "creature." The primary meaning of the word according to Oxford is "animal, not human,"

 

So an animal, person or fictional being. Well, the meaning of the RAW text is clear: it does not work on inanimate objects.

 

 

Man, if the RAW text were clear, we would not be having this discussion. :)

 

If it had never been mentioned here, the idea would not even have oppoed into my head that they meant "living thing." It's warp lightning. It's not some soul-burning attack.

 

I'm pretty sure they actually mean "target of attack." We could actually ask them. ;)


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 13 February 2014 - 11:41 AM.


#18 Alrik Vas

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 11:49 PM

I'd have to agree that it would work on vehicles/objects, yes.  Since the text doesn't particulalry exclude them and all.  Though people are free to go with whatever they think.



#19 Routa-maa

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 12:52 AM

I would say it would be quite a **** move from GM to deny Smite from targeting inanimate object.

 

example, Necron Portal

GM tells, after successful skill test, that only thing that could destroy it is Psychic Powers. Too bad Librarian only happens to have Smite, as for some reason his Force Sword was destroyed when he battled Necron Lord.

 

So no way of destroying it. Mission Failed, Renown reduced  <_<

I might be a **** GM sometimes but  not an *******.


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#20 ak-73

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 06:45 AM

There is no accounting for taste. RAW is fairly clear though.

 

Plus, I'm modifying it according to my own tastes here - it gives Smite a good, ranged anti-personnel niche. And it makes the choice between Smite and Avenger more difficult.

 

Alex


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