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Taking "Control"


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#1 tumslover27

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 02:26 AM

1. I'm trying to understand the whole control thing. Im obviously new to this game. How does this work? If I, with the "Seductive Promise" card take control of an opponent's character, does it become mine for the rest of the game? I mean, do I just take it and put it on my side of the "table" or play area?

2. How do the "HONOR GUARD" cards work? As soon as I bring them out do I just hand them to my opponent and as soon as they use them in a challenge they have to hand them over to me?

#2 Underworld40k

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 03:40 AM

With seductive promise you are correct, unless something undoes the control effect (another seductive promise from your opponent for example) then you take control and can use the character as if you had played it.

The honor guards can be played in 2 ways, you can marshal them normally in your phase for their cost in which case you have control of them immediately. OR you can play them for free in the challenge phase following their text instructions.

You would put them into play under the control of an opponent who would hopefully use them in a challenge, if they win that challenge you would take control of them as their text states (in whatever state they currently are, standing/knelt), assuming they survived the challenge.



#3 HastAttack

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 07:50 AM

There are some other control change things which can be more confusing - Enslaved (an attachment) and Ward (an event)

 

With Enslaved, we play that the control returns to the owner (or previous controlled?) is the attachment is removed

 

I still don't know what happens with Ward and as such do not play it

 

Ward:

Response: After you win a military challenge, choose a character of STR 2 or less controlled by the losing player. Attach Ward to the chosen character as a Condition attachment with the text: "Take control of attached character. If the owner of attached character wins an Intrigue or Power challenge against you, discard Ward."
 

 

Enslaved:

Attach to a character with printed cost 2 or lower.
Take control of attached character.

 

When you take control of a character you get to count any power on it

If there are attachments, the owner of those attachments still controls them

If the attachment says "Attach to a character you control..." then the attachment gets discarded



#4 Daenarys

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 08:08 AM



 

I still don't know what happens with Ward and as such do not play it

 

Ward:

Response: After you win a military challenge, choose a character of STR 2 or less controlled by the losing player. Attach Ward to the chosen character as a Condition attachment with the text: "Take control of attached character. If the owner of attached character wins an Intrigue or Power challenge against you, discard Ward."
 

 


Ward is an interesting one and would also like clarification. I initially thought that you would keep control of the character until an effect or ability returns it to it's owner. I am however unsure based on the last words 'If the owner of attached character wins an Intrigue or Power challenge against you, discard Ward'. To me this implies that should an intrigue or power be won then the character would return to the owners .



#5 HastAttack

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 08:13 AM

That's my current assumption too - which makes it fairly useless

 

The text also says OWNER - so if a character owned by player A is enslaved of by Player B and then Player C takes control using Ward ... it is down to Player A to win the challenge - not Player B ... but control would return to player B?



#6 Daenarys

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 08:23 AM

I think as a rule that when a card is taken control of by another player using a card mechanic ( such as enslaved, ward ) then that card would return to it's owner once the mechanics of what originally stole it have been broken, for example, getting rid of attachments - enslaved or winning an intrigue - ward.

 

As such cards like ward seem to be 'saviour' cards in specific situations as opposed to long term steals like enslaved which is much harder to get rid off.



#7 HastAttack

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 08:30 AM

In a ealier post re Melisandra's Favour

 

Istaril said:

The control of the card reverts back to the owner if there are no effects currently modifying control (like, say, an enslaved or Ygritte etc).

 

So a card does not neccessarily return to the owners control



#8 ktom

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 08:51 AM

You need to differentiate how control is taken. There are two possibilities:

- By continuous effect (usually attachment text, like Ward, Enslaved, or Mel's Favor): as with all continuous effects, the effect is only valid while the card with the effect is in play. So discarding a card with a continuous "take control" effect (like Ward) ends the "take control" effect, and the card returns to whomever had it last.

- By lasting effect (usually created by a triggered or passive effect, like Seductive Promise or Fury of the Stag): as with all lasting effects, once triggered, the effect persists for the defined duration, or "forever" if no duration is specified.

This is why taking control of a character with Seductive Promise goes on, no matter what happens to the event, but control reverts when something like Enslaved is discarded.

Ward is a little confusing because it looks like a lasting control change effect created by triggering the event. It is not. The lasting effect of the event is to turn the card into an attachment - that has a continuous take control effect. Think of Ward's event effect as turning it into "Enslaved" (but with a self-destruct).

#9 stormwolf27

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 11:34 AM

I think as a rule that when a card is taken control of by another player using a card mechanic ( such as enslaved, ward ) then that card would return to it's owner once the mechanics of what originally stole it have been broken, for example, getting rid of attachments - enslaved or winning an intrigue - ward.

 

As such cards like ward seem to be 'saviour' cards in specific situations as opposed to long term steals like enslaved which is much harder to get rid off.

don't forget, because it becomes a "condition" attachment after playing it, there are other ways of getting rid of Ward, without having to win specific challenges.

 

Also, depending on the house you're playing, there's plenty of "attachment hate" out there to get rid of either one.

 

It's Seductive Promise you've got to watch out for, cause unless you've got your own character stealing mechanic, it's theirs for the rest of the game (providing they use the character and don't let him/her die)


Edited by stormwolf27, 07 February 2014 - 11:37 AM.

"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men." - Willy Wonka


#10 HastAttack

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 11:41 AM

Slavers Bay is really horrible - its a good reason to run the Targ agenda and get in those 2 power challenges per round

 

Response: If it is Summer, after you win a [Power] challenge, kneel Slaver's Bay to put a non-unique character from any opponent's discard pile into play under your control.
 



#11 ktom

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 04:05 PM

(Although, since it's unique, you have to have ways to stand the location between power challenges if you want to use it twice in the round. Plus, you have to make sure there are characters in the discard pile to take. Maybe use the Alliance agenda to pair Targ with GJ?)



#12 Khudzlin

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 09:54 AM

Even if you can use the response only once each turn, having more challenges increases the odds of getting the opportunity to trigger the response. This location also functions as a deterrent against power challenges, since you run the risk of giving your opponent a character if they win on defense.



#13 HastAttack

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 08:03 AM

I'm thinking of a Targ milling deck ... I wouldn't get power like I do from Greyjoy / Corpse Lake but there are some temptations to build up my opponents discard pile - not only Slavers Bay but also Visenya's Hill (for unqiue characters)

 

I might run a couple of copies of Frostfangs to keep those discards going

 

As per Khudzlin's comment - the agenda doubles your changes of winning a power challege more than anything else

 

I would probably look at a couple of Maesters with Steel Link (Stand a location), Lead Link (Reduce Strength) and Copper Link (Give a Trait)



#14 Khudzlin

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 01:19 PM

Not double, since you have 2 opportunities to win a power challenge (attack and defense) from the start,






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