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#41 wlk

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 12:30 PM

I'm really glad they clarified the Must X or Y vs Must Either X or Y thing, I was looking for an answer to that and couldn't find one for a while.

The most important part is that when it says, "either" you have to choose one that you can do (if you can do either). There have been many games where I just chose the option I couldn't do and made the Treachery card have no effect essentially.

 

Still does not sound that clear to me:

The Ambush (errated) now reads: "At the beginning of the combat phase, each player must either turn each of his hidden cards faceup, or take 1 hidden card."

 

Even if I have no hidden cards, I could still choose to turn each of my hidden cards (none) and face no effect... No ?

I'd rather apply the rule that says "if ambiguous, interpret as worst case scenario for the player" here.


Edited by wlk, 07 February 2014 - 12:32 PM.


#42 Raven1015

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 01:09 PM

 

I'm really glad they clarified the Must X or Y vs Must Either X or Y thing, I was looking for an answer to that and couldn't find one for a while.

The most important part is that when it says, "either" you have to choose one that you can do (if you can do either). There have been many games where I just chose the option I couldn't do and made the Treachery card have no effect essentially.

 

Still does not sound that clear to me:

The Ambush (errated) now reads: "At the beginning of the combat phase, each player must either turn each of his hidden cards faceup, or take 1 hidden card."

 

Even if I have no hidden cards, I could still choose to turn each of my hidden cards (none) and face no effect... No ?

I'd rather apply the rule that says "if ambiguous, interpret as worst case scenario for the player" here.

 

 

No, you can only choose an option that you are able to fulfill. Because you have no hidden cards, you can't turn any faceup. You have to turn at least 1 hidden card faceup to satisfy that option, otherwise you have to take the other one.


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#43 leptokurt

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 01:40 PM

 

That's what I was trying to say. You have to pick the enemy because he isn't eligible.


The point is that HUtB targets the enemy, as you have to pick him specifically for this attack while Quick Strike initiates an attack sequence during which you pick an enemy. The latter doesn't target the enemy directly, the further does.
 
And yes, it's silly, but I long gave up on card game rules following common sense. 
 
 
ETA:
 
Quick Strike tells your character to start an attack. An immune enemy is not involved here, as he only suffers from the attack itself (which follows the card effect), but not from the card effect.
 
Hands Upon the Bow tells your character to attack an enemy in the staging area. You have to pick that enemy. In that moment the enemy says: "Sorry, immune, can't pick me!" and you can't even start the attack.


The issue with what you said is that it doesn't mention eligibility. You need to pick an enemy either way, otherwise you can't make an attack, which should make the two cards identical in this respect. Hands Upon the Bow does not explicitly state to target/pick an enemy, and neither does Quick Strick; they say to attack an enemy, which is a normal action in the game that isn't considered a card effect. The only difference (besides the obvious +1 attack) is that Hands Upon the Bow is making normally ineligible targets eligible.

 

Please try to understand that I'm not trying to put you down. I just want everyone to understand why GrandSpleen and I were having issues with the distinction between these two cards.

 

I'm fine with what you're saying and I get the point you're trying to make. ;)


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#44 jjeagle

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 04:52 PM

 

 

I'm really glad they clarified the Must X or Y vs Must Either X or Y thing, I was looking for an answer to that and couldn't find one for a while.

The most important part is that when it says, "either" you have to choose one that you can do (if you can do either). There have been many games where I just chose the option I couldn't do and made the Treachery card have no effect essentially.

 

Still does not sound that clear to me:

The Ambush (errated) now reads: "At the beginning of the combat phase, each player must either turn each of his hidden cards faceup, or take 1 hidden card."

 

Even if I have no hidden cards, I could still choose to turn each of my hidden cards (none) and face no effect... No ?

I'd rather apply the rule that says "if ambiguous, interpret as worst case scenario for the player" here.

 

 

No, you can only choose an option that you are able to fulfill. Because you have no hidden cards, you can't turn any faceup. You have to turn at least 1 hidden card faceup to satisfy that option, otherwise you have to take the other one.

 

I'm not certain this is necessarily correct: I would argue that you can chose to turn zero hidden cards face up and therefore fulfil that option. Not 100% confident either way.


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#45 Raven1015

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 05:41 PM

 

 

 

I'm really glad they clarified the Must X or Y vs Must Either X or Y thing, I was looking for an answer to that and couldn't find one for a while.

The most important part is that when it says, "either" you have to choose one that you can do (if you can do either). There have been many games where I just chose the option I couldn't do and made the Treachery card have no effect essentially.

 

Still does not sound that clear to me:

The Ambush (errated) now reads: "At the beginning of the combat phase, each player must either turn each of his hidden cards faceup, or take 1 hidden card."

 

Even if I have no hidden cards, I could still choose to turn each of my hidden cards (none) and face no effect... No ?

I'd rather apply the rule that says "if ambiguous, interpret as worst case scenario for the player" here.

 

 

No, you can only choose an option that you are able to fulfill. Because you have no hidden cards, you can't turn any faceup. You have to turn at least 1 hidden card faceup to satisfy that option, otherwise you have to take the other one.

 

I'm not certain this is necessarily correct: I would argue that you can chose to turn zero hidden cards face up and therefore fulfil that option. Not 100% confident either way.

 

 

I get what you're saying that there is a layer of ambiguity, but I think it's pretty clear that you have to turn at least 1 hidden card face up. Think about it: by a similar logic, if a treachery asked you to deal 1 damage to each ally in play or raise your threat, and you have no allies in play, you can't just say, "i'm dealing 1 damage to zero allies". It's been made clear in the past (and in this FAQ) that you have to fulfill one. You can't pick an option that has no gameplay impact.


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#46 Mika Mika

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 05:41 PM

Actually, this new FAQ totally answers one of the real questions that really matter : 

 

faqere11.jpg


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#47 Bullroarer Took

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 06:08 PM

I was hoping the FAQ would explain the Planning action of Haunted Valley from Stone of Erech.

 

While this location is in the staging area, all ready heroes lose all [Lore], [Leadership], [Spirit], and [Tactics] icons.
Planning Action: Exhaust a hero. Any player may trigger this action.          

 

Does this simply mean that a hero must be exhausted during planning?  Since it doesn't say "Forced" I am confused.
 


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#48 Raven1015

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 06:19 PM

I was hoping the FAQ would explain the Planning action of Haunted Valley from Stone of Erech.

 

While this location is in the staging area, all ready heroes lose all [Lore], [Leadership], [Spirit], and [Tactics] icons.
Planning Action: Exhaust a hero. Any player may trigger this action.          

 

Does this simply mean that a hero must be exhausted during planning?  Since it doesn't say "Forced" I am confused.
 

 

The location deprives all "ready" heroes of their icons. It then gives you the option of exhausting a hero during planning as an action. Normally, this is a bad thing, but since they are no longer "ready", that hero would get their resource icon back. Basically, the location gives you a way to get your resource icon back, but at a price.

So you're not required to do it, but it's an option. It's kind of like the action on Zigil Mineshaft.


Edited by Raven1015, 07 February 2014 - 06:20 PM.

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#49 Bullroarer Took

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 06:47 PM

 

I was hoping the FAQ would explain the Planning action of Haunted Valley from Stone of Erech.

 

While this location is in the staging area, all ready heroes lose all [Lore], [Leadership], [Spirit], and [Tactics] icons.
Planning Action: Exhaust a hero. Any player may trigger this action.          

 

Does this simply mean that a hero must be exhausted during planning?  Since it doesn't say "Forced" I am confused.
 

 

The location deprives all "ready" heroes of their icons. It then gives you the option of exhausting a hero during planning as an action. Normally, this is a bad thing, but since they are no longer "ready", that hero would get their resource icon back. Basically, the location gives you a way to get your resource icon back, but at a price.

So you're not required to do it, but it's an option. It's kind of like the action on Zigil Mineshaft.

 

Ah.  I skipped over the "ready" in the first sentence.  Penalty for reading too fast.  Thanks much.


Nearly all of my comments are from the perspective of the single handed solo player.




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