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New custom Career for a dwarf.


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#1 akahdrin

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 01:08 PM

I made this because there was no further progression for runesmiths and engineers.  I figured since they're both crafting or tinkering in a way, why not find a way to blend them together to create something fun.

I have been making all of the high elven and wood elf careers as well since production has stopped on basically everything.  Book of grudges gave us a lot of great things to help with the dwarves, but 2 races are still left out with great starter classes, but nothing to move into.

Anyways, check out the Runegineer.  I know it has 5 talent slots, as per the other 5th rank careers.  It has a mixture of the classes skills + leadership and the swap to fellowship as a primary stat to show that it's now a leader.

*edit* updated with heroic and reworded the requirement to clear up any confusion.

 

https://dl.dropboxus.../Runegineer.pdf


Edited by akahdrin, 15 February 2014 - 08:59 AM.

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#2 DurakBlackaxe

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 03:55 AM

Its a good idea, to have an advanced career. If your having fun with it, thats what is important.

 

But lore wise. Engineers and Runesmiths are two different Guilds. In the Dwarf society I have read Runesmith is a long term education can take decades or even a century to master it.  But nothing to stop a Engineer going the Runesmith path. Cant see them going the other way, not unless they are such a failure at the craft.

 

The highest rank of Runesmith are so revered that only a King, Grudgekeep and Lorekeeper are higher in prestige to them.

 

Engineer, now I agree, that needs a higher rank. Only 2 engineer careers means you have to train dwarf engineering twice in a career so lose out on one specialization.

 

 

What is your idea behind the Runegineer, seems you thinking of it as a rank 5 career?  The traits on you card make it a rank 3 career though. Should be elite or even heroic instead of advanced.

 

Dont get me wrong, i love the career. I would even use it with that modification, also having both engineer careers dedicated as well as the runesmith careers, would be great too.

 

Currently the flow is

 

 Basic Apprentice Runesmith -> Intermediate Runesmith 

 Dwarf Engineer -> Dwarf Master Engineer

 

 

I see Runesmith ending in a type of Master Runesmith, a high social rank as well, hmm i just read a dwarvern book on the War of Vengeance that mention these special runesmiths. They were ancient and revered.

 

I see Engineer ending up in Dwarf Engineer Guildmaster, which is very much a political position.

 

High level runesmiths have a special magic, not sure how it works, but the book i mentioned did describe a staff, dispelling and electricity blasts.  There any runes like that in the game?

 

 

Sorry, I love dwarves and their lore, so get carried away on theorycrafting.



#3 r_b_bergstrom

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 12:02 PM


 

High level runesmiths have a special magic, not sure how it works, but the book i mentioned did describe a staff, dispelling and electricity blasts.  There any runes like that in the game?

 

 

Yes. There are some action cards that exhaust the runes to do special things. One of them is an area attack, and another one is essentially a counterspell.

 

 

Anyways, check out the Runegineer.  I know it has 5 talent slots, as per the other 5th rank careers.  It has a mixture of the classes skills + leadership and the swap to fellowship as a primary stat to show that it's now a leader.

 

I really like the idea of a career for both runesmiths and engineers, even if it's somewhat outside of canon. For me, your  text on the back of the career card handles it adeptly, explaining that this character type is quite unusual, and how it fits into the world. I like what you've done there. Good job.

 

However, I'm afraid your work isn't done just yet.

 

As DurakBlackAxe said, the traits you've given it correspond to a Rank 3 career, not a rank 5 career. I'd encourage you to swap out "Advanced" and replace it with "Heroic" to make it Rank 5, since it has two potent career abilities and 5 talents. Technically, the career entry requirements cover that, but I worry that they can be parsed two different ways. "Both" could be taken to mean one each of Engineer and Runesmith, when I think you actually both of the Engineer careers _and_ both of the Runesmith careers. Probably best to swap out the traits, and also clarify the requirements section.

 

There are also some other issues that stem from this existing without a greater context (as in the lack of other Advanced/Epic/Heroic Dwarf Careers). Specifically:

  • Currently, there are no (official) careers that actually let a Runesmith put three Runes on a single item. So you're basically jumping from 2 runes to 4. Ideally, we'd add a new career to cover that gap, but doing so makes the career entry requirement just that much more unclear.
  • The official runes include only 3 weapons, 3 talismans, and 3 armour runes. So in order for the "1 item with 4 runes" ability to be useful, you'll need to make at least 1 more rune card for each type.
  • The career as written doesn't have enough Talent advances. A character taking this career will want to buy 2 Reputation Talents for certain, plus probably a new Rune and maybe a new Invention. I'd suggest reducing Fortune to 1, and increasing Talents to 2.

 

Some of those context issues are solved by the various fan-made Dwarf expansions put out by Yepesnopes and Jackdays. If you aren't already familiar with them, here's some links:

http://community.fan...nd-runic-items/

http://kalevalahamme...rp3newcards.htm

I don't necessarily endorse everything in both of those expansions (I've cherrypicked bits out of them for my own campaign) but I think you'll at least find them interesting.



#4 k7e9

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 02:40 PM

I like the career and the fluff text on the card, really cool!

 

Only one suggestion:

I would not allow it to add 4 runes to a single item. As stated on page 39 in the Book of Grudges under the heading "The Rule of Three": "No runic item may bear more than three magic runes. Even the mightiest of rune axes and talismans crafted b the most gifted runesmiths throughout history cannot break this limit."

 

An item cannot hold that much magical runes, ever. It's a fundamental "law" of runesmithing if I recall correcty it's also quoted in the dwarven army book for the fantasy battles game as well.

 

I'd recommend changing the crafting speciality text to read The runengineer can create one item with 3 runes and 4 modifications...



#5 akahdrin

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 08:31 AM

There are no ongoing updated rules probably because they gave up on the game, but I did not.  I continue to make homebrews.  I have the Swordmaster completely flushed out into 3 separate directions with them going into lorekeepers, Khaine followers, and Vaul followers.  I have high magic completely written up on cards that resemble the WFB table top games spells.  I took the initiative because there was no other option!

For entry requirements, it's clear.  It is listed as it must possess the dedication bonus to both of the engineer and runesmith careers.  I will edit it to make it say it must possess all 4 to clarify it further.

About the lack of talents, by the time they are rank 5 they have already had the ability to train 13 talents through the runesmith and engineer trees and 15 if you count this one with a total of 10 of them coming in from the runesmith/runegineer.  Don't forget when you are advancing up in each career, you must take 1 skill, 1 action, 1 talent, and 1 wound on top of the other 6 advances which must come from your careers available pool of 10.  Those first 4 you take are not taken out of your available advances!  I don't need to add in more talents as they have plenty.  As per page 35, those are fixed advances and must always be taken!  This is also why a stat can only be raised to 6 because the available number of advances that you can freely spend is only 6.  I also gave it 3 skills as it gained leadership and I wanted to make sure they had the option to max that if they chose to.

Yes there are only rules for a few runes in the rules, but then again it says right on page 37 that there are no master runes included but we are welcome to add them in so I did!  I have actually flushed out the entire list on page 38 including master runes all printed up on card stock.  I have every rune set up in the game, but not "known" to the current populace of dwarfs.  In order for him to find or research new runes, he has to seek them out or find them on accident.  Maybe he finds a book in an old forge in a dwarf hold that was held by orcs that holds the secret to a rune.  Maybe he sees a rune inscribed on a forge and has no idea what it is.  Maybe they found an ancient weapon!

I have it set up that anyone who finishes the Runesmith career is allowed to put 3 runes on items, but are not allowed to sell or trade them, they are gifts only and even then not common to give out as a dwarf prefers to keep a hoard of items.  On page 39 it says you can put 3 on with consent of a GM, which I consent.

Yes there is the rule of 3 and like all other rules, it can be superseded by another ability which I did as the rules are there as a base, but in the core rulebook it says that things can override the rules..  I thought of it as the pinnacle of engineering and runesmithing in one.  The class is not set up to be a guild master or anything like that, it is set up to be the best in crafting.  It's focus is not on the magic of a runesmith or to run their guild, it's on the powers it can imbue onto an item along with the modifications which enhance it even more.

The reason it has 4 runes on it is to make truly a unique item that has never been made before and would become a legend with the powers that it can wield.  It can never be given up, so it's only for the player that made it, which gives that player even more pride in their character.  You'll hate to see the difficulties I have set up to craft it though!  Remember it can only be done once.  Imagine that a dwarf crafter can once in his life make a true masterpiece, now imagine that dwarf crafter is this career who takes each of their trades to a new level.  Does it break the game?  Not really, at rank 5 things are so damn hard anyways.  He is forced to have a high intelligence to even make this item which means his strength/agility is very lacking to even fire it or strike with it.  The reason I gave the green dice was to help make up for this as their focus was always on intelligence.

I should change it to heroic, I'll do this as well, I wasn't thinking straight when I put advanced on there!

*Edit* updated the card


Edited by akahdrin, 15 February 2014 - 08:58 AM.


#6 DurakBlackaxe

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 05:30 PM

The reason it has 4 runes on it is to make truly a unique item that has never been made before and would become a legend with the powers that it can wield.  It can never be given up, so it's only for the player that made it, which gives that player even more pride in their character. 

 

It just that in Warhammer, you cannot put more than 3 runes on any item. Its the main rule of runic items. Even the older dwarf items back when magic was more powerful, they couldn't break this rule.

 

You can houserule it sure, but you going outside the Warhammer lore. That item cannot exist except at your game.



#7 r_b_bergstrom

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 12:24 PM

Yes there are only rules for a few runes in the rules, but then again it says right on page 37 that there are no master runes included but we are welcome to add them in so I did!  I have actually flushed out the entire list on page 38 including master runes all printed up on card stock.  I have every rune set up in the game, but not "known" to the current populace of dwarfs.

 

If you get a chance to post those homebrewed Rune cards here, I'd love to see them.



#8 akahdrin

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 12:54 PM

 

The reason it has 4 runes on it is to make truly a unique item that has never been made before and would become a legend with the powers that it can wield.  It can never be given up, so it's only for the player that made it, which gives that player even more pride in their character. 

 

It just that in Warhammer, you cannot put more than 3 runes on any item. Its the main rule of runic items. Even the older dwarf items back when magic was more powerful, they couldn't break this rule.

 

You can houserule it sure, but you going outside the Warhammer lore. That item cannot exist except at your game.

 

 

 

On page 41 of the Book of Grudges under the Jealous runes, it talks about how that there can only be 1 master rune on an item, but then right after that says that there was 1 exception to the rule with the Axe of Grimnir.  Like this, I have made an exception and like I said before, it does nothing but to enhance that item in terms of importance and the person who wields it.

Also the fact that it can not exist is sort of funny because, well, nothing exists in it anyways.  This is a game of fantasy and creativity.  I broke the rule of 3, yes I did, and in the end once that player dies, that weapon will more than likely be buried with him and will be forever shrouded in myth which would be awesome.

And on a side note.  All rules are meant to be broken!


Edited by akahdrin, 24 February 2014 - 01:06 PM.


#9 Gazery

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 03:05 AM

I'm afraid I would have to agree with DurakBlackaxe. I would not allow a Runic item to have more than 3 Runes on it, if it was attempted then the item would be instantly destroyed and half the town/hold/countryside where they were attempting it would also be destroyed in the magical explosion and the Runesmith would never be seen again.

 

BUT this is WFRP 3rd and that means that each and every game can and should be tailored to the wants and needs of the group playing it. So as long as everyone in your group is happy with it then I would allow it. So go for it and enjoy the power and fame of the weapon.

 

Gazery






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