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Time X - problem with the phrasing or intentional?

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#21 Nerdmeister



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Posted 05 February 2014 - 03:26 AM

I´m still feeling undecided as to whether it was intentional.

On one hand the design team has been getting really good at wording effects and cards in an unambiguous way, that also benefits the intentions behind the designs (the way I see it anyway)

On the other hand it just seems a bit weird that the Raven´s Guardian example, which is intended as a cyclical problem, to be potentially rendered completely ineffective. The solution to this specific card could be a wording like "when there are 0 time counters on Raven´s Guardian put 4 time counters on it". Indeed the only "oversight" (if indeed there is one) might be connected to the Raven´s Guardian text.

#22 booored



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Posted 05 February 2014 - 03:41 AM

It is defiantly intentional. There is a provision in the rules to force TimeX to always trigger... all they had to do was have the TimeX definition say "enters" instead of "revealed". There is no way this is a mistake, as there is no ambiguity in this interpretation, imo. Having TimeX not trigger is no stranger than not having guarded trigger in HFG after you use Banks of the Anduin or Surge and doom not triggering.

I guess the real proof is that TimeX is a reveled keyword like Doom and surge and all that and none of them trigger on enter either.. So if it was a mistake, then it was breaking the established patterns of the game design.

It is interesting to note that the "reveal to staging area" and "add it to the staging area" never used to be separated, nor was there a definition of "enter". Keywords like Surge, DoomX and Guarded originally always triggered any time, as anything entering the staging area was revealed. This is why the wording is so lame, using practically the same names, as it used to be the same. It was separated in a FAQ sometime in Darowdelf if I remember right.

Well, if you see any bad information, please report it to me or on my thread. I carefully put all url where I found the answer so it can be tracked to the original question/response thread.

Well I guess there is no reason not to expect the uFAQ to have evolved as much as the official FAQ. It was just when the game first started there was 3 completely separate uFAQs and they would make rulings on stuff that the forums were still discussing and FFG had not ruled on. Having 3 locations with conflicting information was just a mess and made more confusion than it stopped. I just thought the entire thing was a total mess. I should probably take another look at it before making such comments I guess.

Edited by booored, 05 February 2014 - 03:55 AM.

"People should be less concerned about whether they are being insulted and more concerned if it is the truth"

#23 GrandSpleen



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Posted 05 February 2014 - 11:51 AM

I´m still feeling undecided as to whether it was intentional.



It would just be too easy to use A Light in the Dark, or Spirit Pippin, or an Ithilien Archer to reset an enemy's time counter if it was "adds to" or "enters" the staging area.  And there are plentiful ways of returning the active location to the staging area as well.  I guess they could have written that Time counters are placed when a card "enters play," but certainly if they had written "enters the staging area" or "is added to the staging area," the whole Time system would be a joke.

#24 wlk



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Posted 05 February 2014 - 12:16 PM

Ok, but surge is not exception, because it simply says: "after the card is revealed...". If the card with surge not reaches to be revealed (for example, with Thalin, etc) it doesnt trigger the keyword surge.


True, Indeed.

My point was that keywords are confusing because they are handled in different ways:

- some are trigger "when revealed", but before "when revealed" effects

- some are trigger "when revealed", but after "when revealed" effects

- some are trigger when entering play (so don't require to be "revealed")

It's easy to misplay them. I used to trigger "Undergworld X" only "when revealed" until I checked precisely after reading this thread.

Ususally not a big deal, but I like to play by the book :)

#25 wlk



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Posted 05 February 2014 - 12:18 PM

I would be very wary about using unofficial FAQs... they often have bad information and are slow to update. The LoTR rules is really starting to come together and it is pretty clear in most cases now. Especially with a active forum to ask.


Well in this particular case, the UFAQ point to the official FAQ, so there's not much doubt :)

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