Jump to content



Photo

Rogue Trader character is the boss?


  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#21 riplikash

riplikash

    Member

  • Members
  • 347 posts

Posted 09 February 2014 - 09:14 AM

I'm not getting the uproar about storm bolters. I can't think of a tabletop situation where they AREN'T used one handed. At least all the models that use them are modeled with them one handed at least. And they aren't just terminators, quite a few special characters have them.



#22 Erathia

Erathia

    Member

  • Members
  • 521 posts

Posted 09 February 2014 - 12:57 PM

I'm not getting the uproar about storm bolters. I can't think of a tabletop situation where they AREN'T used one handed. At least all the models that use them are modeled with them one handed at least. And they aren't just terminators, quite a few special characters have them.

 

Because those are Space Marines, and Rogue Trader was created with the assumption your PCs would be normal, impossibly-wealthy humans.


Citizens of Grace! We have defeated both the Dark Eldar and Ork menaces that threatened your system! We need no thanks nor payments, so long as you do not leave the atmosphere during our salvage operations under pain of death! - Jequin Hos of The Hos Dynasty


#23 riplikash

riplikash

    Member

  • Members
  • 347 posts

Posted 09 February 2014 - 01:48 PM

And those Space Marines are using the more powerful, bulkier astartes version of the weapon, which is represented in the rules. A human can use the scaled down human version the same way an astartes uses his scaled up version. Otherwise what is the point of HAVING a scaled down version.



#24 Radwraith

Radwraith

    Member

  • Members
  • 692 posts

Posted 09 February 2014 - 02:07 PM

Rt is based on the independent merchant captains of the 16th through 19th centuries historically. Often operating with the explicit blessing of a government under a document called a "letter of Marque". The owner of a ship was called it's Master while the officer in charge of it's operation was called the Commander. Thus, A Vessel owned and operated by the same individual was called a "Master and Commander" (Just like the book and movie of the same name.) The Ship's master was the absolute final arbiter of ANYTHING that happened on his ship as was the captain in his absence! This is the same arrangement implied within Rogue trader. The Warrant and the dynasty's wealth make the Rogue trader the "Master" of the vessel. Whether he chooses to delegate the operation of his vessel to a "Commander" is up to him but he's the one who is ultimately in command and and responsible for it. This means that the Rogue trader by definition is "The Boss". The thing is: One can't lead effectively by routinely trampling on one's underlings! Good Captains know this, bad ones fail! As mentioned before; Ehile the command crew of the ship may ultimately answer to the RT they are far from helpless themselves. A Captain that does not realise this is going to find himself alone and shiplorne VERY quickly!

 

In My game I explain this Hierarchy in the game prior to character generation. The player's then elect from their group who will be the Captain. This, so far at least, has prevented any problems since they have previously agreed to follow this player's orders. (As the characters would have prior to boarding!)



#25 venkelos

venkelos

    Member

  • Members
  • 982 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 07:14 AM

The whole "the Rogue Trader is the least important, and can be bypassed" bit makes me glad to remember that the game mentioned occasionally cool things, like the data storage that might hold the ship's activation hymns, and without it, the ship can lock ITSELF down; even the Explorator might have some difficulty getting around it.

 

One thing to remember is that the group was, hopefully, cobbled together by the Rogue Trader. Either they found specific people who they felt were gifted enough, AND loyal enough, or those people were a part of the Dynasty as the RT was growing up, and thus they were trained to be subservient to the RT. While the players might be a group of fractious d-bags who have barely met, and don't think that they need to listen to each other, the CHARACTERS are supposed to be a well-oiled group. And in a world where billions believe in the God-Emperor as GOD, the Rogue Trader has a piece of paper effectively signed by His hand that says they're in charge. Fluff-wise, he/she SHOULD also the best picks of gear, even compared to the AM or AdMech. I might not be as good with a gun as my AM, but I have the inferno pistol, to his whatever. No guarantee, but I like to root for the cheesiest gun.

 

Of course, then the reality is that the RT's ship really is a pirate ship, and that means the RT is (Lord-) Captain only by dint of their crew saying it is so. It's a nice bit to keep the game balanced, even when what might've otherwise been the GM's main NPC (the RT) is now a player, too. Ascension sort of lacked that, in my imagination. The Inquisitor wasn't one among equals, even super-powered Ascension equals; he or she was an Inquisitor, and everyone else in the group better listen. Here, while the Rogue Trader is in charge, the players can feel that they aren't subservient to another player, AND the GM.

 

One last bit. While the other players are all, in their own ways, better than the RT, he or she does still have one other ability. The RT is what ALLOWS for Acquisition rolls. Without them, and their connection to the dynasty's wealth, your players better like the gear they have, never run out of ammo, and better have a ship made of absurdium, because paying to resupply demands the wealth of the RT, and it is the RT's wealth. Even the Seneshal MIGHT have trouble faking it.


  • Greengoat likes this

#26 Cogniczar

Cogniczar

    Member

  • Members
  • 254 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 12:08 PM

I'm not getting the uproar about storm bolters. I can't think of a tabletop situation where they AREN'T used one handed. At least all the models that use them are modeled with them one handed at least. And they aren't just terminators, quite a few special characters have them.

 

66639_md-Sister,%20Sisters%20Of%20Battle


  • Greengoat likes this

#27 Quietus1

Quietus1

    Member

  • Members
  • 59 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 03:01 PM

Speaking of Storm Bolters, my Arch-Militant essentially built her own.

 

She started with a best quality bolt pistol. Then she got another one. Then she twin-linked them. Then she added extended clips, ammo selector, motion predictor, laser sight...eventually my GM insisted this "Monster", as it was dubbed, now was classified as a Basic weapon, not a pistol :P

 

The running joke after that was that if confronted with some question or concept over her head, her response was "I like guns" (Fighter from 8bit theatre style).



#28 Erathia

Erathia

    Member

  • Members
  • 521 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 03:05 PM

Speaking of Storm Bolters, my Arch-Militant essentially built her own.

 

She started with a best quality bolt pistol. Then she got another one. Then she twin-linked them. Then she added extended clips, ammo selector, motion predictor, laser sight...eventually my GM insisted this "Monster", as it was dubbed, now was classified as a Basic weapon, not a pistol :P

 

The running joke after that was that if confronted with some question or concept over her head, her response was "I like guns" (Fighter from 8bit theatre style).

 

Clearly she just needs to get the Compact upgrade to turn it back into a pistol.

 

Was it also changed to allow Twin-Linked to do more than just provide one single extra hit, or was this a weapon of intimidation rather than murder?


  • CaptainStabby and Greengoat like this

Citizens of Grace! We have defeated both the Dark Eldar and Ork menaces that threatened your system! We need no thanks nor payments, so long as you do not leave the atmosphere during our salvage operations under pain of death! - Jequin Hos of The Hos Dynasty


#29 Amazing Larry

Amazing Larry

    Member

  • Members
  • 233 posts

Posted 13 February 2014 - 03:39 AM

*Image of a sister of battle holding a storm bolter

 

Kind of proves the point of those of us criticizing the idea of a RT character one handing one because first that character has power armor and secondly she's holding it two handed, and third it's still very very large in relationship to her.


Edited by Amazing Larry, 13 February 2014 - 03:46 AM.


#30 Quietus1

Quietus1

    Member

  • Members
  • 59 posts

Posted 13 February 2014 - 10:53 AM

 

Speaking of Storm Bolters, my Arch-Militant essentially built her own.

 

She started with a best quality bolt pistol. Then she got another one. Then she twin-linked them. Then she added extended clips, ammo selector, motion predictor, laser sight...eventually my GM insisted this "Monster", as it was dubbed, now was classified as a Basic weapon, not a pistol :P

 

The running joke after that was that if confronted with some question or concept over her head, her response was "I like guns" (Fighter from 8bit theatre style).

 

Clearly she just needs to get the Compact upgrade to turn it back into a pistol.

 

Was it also changed to allow Twin-Linked to do more than just provide one single extra hit, or was this a weapon of intimidation rather than murder?

 

 

Pulling this from memory, but I believe when all was said and done, a burst from the weapon would score between 1 and 4 hits, depending on the degrees of success, with whatever bonuses twin link and motion sensor provide (can't recall offhand). Max hits was four, as a SA burst from a bolt pistol is 2.



#31 CaptainStabby

CaptainStabby

    Member

  • Members
  • 221 posts

Posted 14 February 2014 - 01:09 PM

You could make the argument that fluff wise(and tabletop) human sized power armor has the recoil suspension feature that Astartes/Traitor PA does in the RPG, thus allowing you to use basic weapons one handed.

 

Or a pistol grip, or recoil gauntlets etc... there are lots of ways to do it.

 

Also.

 

m1241710_99060105149_IGCmsrYarrickmain_8


Edited by CaptainStabby, 14 February 2014 - 03:22 PM.


#32 Traejun

Traejun

    Member

  • Members
  • 255 posts

Posted 16 February 2014 - 12:24 AM

 

 

Edit: I agree with Erathia.
 
Technically, according to the narrow definitions in the Warrant of Trade and the rules of the Imperium of Man, the Rogue Trader is the boss.  This does not mean he is the boss of the other players.


It, in fact, means precisely that. If the group isn't mature enough to stick to some firm of realistic hierarchy, play a different game. RT runs the show, the other follow. The end.

 

 

You can play a game with a defined leader, or you can play a game where the Rogue Trader is a spineless pushover desperate to look like he knows what he's doing and will follow the most persuasive arguement that exists, one forced to share power with another Rogue Trader because of some ancient and bizarre stipulation in the Warrant, or even one like my Rogue Trader who believes in the heresy of democracy and will listen when outvoted.

 

I think that a Rogue Trader is not necessarily the boss of the other players, and can in fact be outmanoeuvred by them for all intents and purposes. The most important thing, at least to me, is that all of the players outside of the game are aware of and okay with how the game is structured, and then just trust your players to play a situation appropriately.

 

Remember, no inter-party conflict can survive a unified rage at the GM for having Shadow Spectre Eldars attack surprise attack someone with anti-tank weaponry.

 

 

I suppose it would be possible to have an RT that just delegate stuff all day... the administrator type RT.  That kind of breaks the mold of what a Rogue Trader is "supposed to be," but I guess it could be done.  I have a difficult time trying to imagine wanting to play that kind of character, but to each their own.

 

That said... yes, the RT is the boss.  "How" they lead is certainly flexible... but they "should" always be a leader.


  • Erathia likes this

#33 Erathia

Erathia

    Member

  • Members
  • 521 posts

Posted 16 February 2014 - 02:49 AM

 


I suppose it would be possible to have an RT that just delegate stuff all day... the administrator type RT.  That kind of breaks the mold of what a Rogue Trader is "supposed to be," but I guess it could be done.  I have a difficult time trying to imagine wanting to play that kind of character, but to each their own.

 

 
Passing an ancient document of untold power and freedom through genetics will not always produce the best of leaders. My group was originally not going to have a Rogue Trader PC, so I had prepared a Hugh Laurie Prince George NPC for them to run circles around during their plans.

 


  • Tenebrae and Traejun like this

Citizens of Grace! We have defeated both the Dark Eldar and Ork menaces that threatened your system! We need no thanks nor payments, so long as you do not leave the atmosphere during our salvage operations under pain of death! - Jequin Hos of The Hos Dynasty


#34 Amazing Larry

Amazing Larry

    Member

  • Members
  • 233 posts

Posted 16 February 2014 - 05:50 AM

 Passing an ancient document of untold power and freedom through genetics will not always produce the best of leaders. My group was originally not going to have a Rogue Trader PC, so I had prepared a Hugh Laurie Prince George NPC for them to run circles around during their plans.

 

I have something different but also similar, originally nobody wanted to be the RT so I came up with a demented old fart who would roll out of bed with his glorious chest plate covered in medals but who forgot to wear anything from the waist down and who wore his socks in the shower. At this point they've accepted him as a sort of mascot whcih wasn't my desire or intent.

 

We have an RT player at this point so I'm trying to kill the NPC off, let you know how that goes. Unfortunately like I said they kind of prop him up now because they think he's hilarious.


  • Darth Smeg, Nameless2all, Drachdhar and 1 other like this

#35 Tenebrae

Tenebrae

    Member

  • Members
  • 700 posts

Posted 16 February 2014 - 10:32 AM

We have an RT player at this point so I'm trying to kill the NPC off, let you know how that goes. Unfortunately like I said they kind of prop him up now because they think he's hilarious.

The PC is the heir, I presume?

 

Let them keep their mascot. It seems to keep them amused, so it's only a problem if the RT's player feels it's problem.


  • Erathia likes this

#36 venkelos

venkelos

    Member

  • Members
  • 982 posts

Posted 16 February 2014 - 03:00 PM

 

 

 

Edit: I agree with Erathia.
 
Technically, according to the narrow definitions in the Warrant of Trade and the rules of the Imperium of Man, the Rogue Trader is the boss.  This does not mean he is the boss of the other players.


It, in fact, means precisely that. If the group isn't mature enough to stick to some firm of realistic hierarchy, play a different game. RT runs the show, the other follow. The end.

 

 

You can play a game with a defined leader, or you can play a game where the Rogue Trader is a spineless pushover desperate to look like he knows what he's doing and will follow the most persuasive arguement that exists, one forced to share power with another Rogue Trader because of some ancient and bizarre stipulation in the Warrant, or even one like my Rogue Trader who believes in the heresy of democracy and will listen when outvoted.

 

I think that a Rogue Trader is not necessarily the boss of the other players, and can in fact be outmanoeuvred by them for all intents and purposes. The most important thing, at least to me, is that all of the players outside of the game are aware of and okay with how the game is structured, and then just trust your players to play a situation appropriately.

 

Remember, no inter-party conflict can survive a unified rage at the GM for having Shadow Spectre Eldars attack surprise attack someone with anti-tank weaponry.

 

 

I suppose it would be possible to have an RT that just delegate stuff all day... the administrator type RT.  That kind of breaks the mold of what a Rogue Trader is "supposed to be," but I guess it could be done.  I have a difficult time trying to imagine wanting to play that kind of character, but to each their own.

 

That said... yes, the RT is the boss.  "How" they lead is certainly flexible... but they "should" always be a leader.

 

Yeah, this can work nice for an NPC (I see Lord-Admiral Bastille in this light), but I think it is usually better for the players to have the RT be one of them, and for he or she to be active. Granted, I have often talked about, and seen some advantage in having the powerful backer be the NPC, and thus being able to tell the players what to do; better way to make them go where I want, when with the RT, they decide where they go, and I have to cover that, but really, the air of RT is better when the players are the power, or at least think they are.

 

And if the RT in question doesn't lead well, there should be a nice puppet master to do it for them, a Jafar, if you will, or they should get aced by someone more aggressive, vibrant, and ready to make some fame.


  • Drachdhar and Erathia like this




© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS