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Question on Genestealer


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#1 B3stie

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 05:55 AM

Hi High Court of Deathwatch,

 

i have some question on the Genestealer rules:

 

1. How many attacks do you give them?

 

They have Lightning Attack, Ambidex and Two Weapon Wielder, so i would give them 4 Attacks BUT

they habe multiple Arms(also the Talent), so do you give them 6 Attacks? (3 from Lightning Attack +1 from each additional Limb?)

 

2. I do not think there is any other creature which has as many different rules than the Genestealer? I am just curios: What rules do you use? I prefer the rules from "the Emperor protects" as they are IMO the most powerfull ones.

 

Thanks for your answers exspecially for Question 1.)

 

 



#2 Avdnm

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 06:21 AM

Personally, I never gave them more than 4 attacks. But it might happen, as most of the time I won't use the same Genestealers for two different missions (they're mutants after all) and my KT is getting way to confident.



#3 musungu

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 07:29 AM

I'd suggest reading through this thread: http://community.fan...on-about-dodge/

The Genestealer is used as an example there, so its abilities are covered in details in the second half. But to recap:

1) Lightning Attack: In short, as a full action, you may make 3 attacks. But here comes the important part:  If the character has the Two-Weapon Wielder Talent and is wielding two melee weapons, the character gains the advantage of Lightning Attack with only one of the weapons, and a single attack with the other. That's 4 attacks so far.

2) Ambidextrous: The talent doesn't give more attack opportunities, it just means you can lessen the penalty: When combined with a Two-Weapon Wielder Talent, the penalty for making attacks with both weapons in the same turn drops to –10

3) Two-Weapon Wielder: You could use a Full Action to make two attacks at -20. However, the description of both Lightning Attack and Ambidextrous specifically states the effect when combined with Two-Weapon Wielder, so it doesn't automatically stack up with those effects.

 

So, all in all, in standard laboratory conditions, the Genestealer may use a Full Action to attack four times, with a -10 penalty to each attack.

 

If there's an incorrect interpretation, please correct it, but basically that's the Standard Issue DW Genestealer righ up there. If you involve crunch from the other FFG 40K games, it might change drastically, but that's uncharted territory for me :)



#4 Avdnm

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 08:50 AM

You're missing out the multiple arms trait, musungu, which can grant you a multiple attack action(2 attacks, like swift attack from my point of view), or increases the number of attacks they make with a multiple attack action by +1.

With this calculation we would be at 4(3 for Lightning Attack, 1 for multiple arms) + 1 (for Two-Weapon wielder) = 5 attacks.


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#5 musungu

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 10:30 AM

You're missing out the multiple arms trait, musungu, which can grant you a multiple attack action(2 attacks, like swift attack from my point of view), or increases the number of attacks they make with a multiple attack action by +1.

With this calculation we would be at 4(3 for Lightning Attack, 1 for multiple arms) + 1 (for Two-Weapon wielder) = 5 attacks.

Fair enough, I did miss it. That's why I keep coming back here, there's always one obvious rule hiding in one of the tomes, trying its best to avoid attention. The rules are legion, and I am but a man :)

 

So the Genestealer has 5 attacks in a full action, all at -10, but gains +10 Toughness (and the +10 Strength bonus when moving around). Hmm, my players have only met the watered-down Final Sanction Genestealer - looks like they're in for a nasty Purestrain surprise :D


Edited by musungu, 03 February 2014 - 10:31 AM.

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#6 B3stie

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 02:19 AM

I also see it this way. In my last campain i "only" gave them 3 Attacks. But in future i will proceed with 5.

:wacko:  *muuhahhhahhauuuh*



#7 Routa-maa

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 02:29 AM

Not to be killjoy, just have to ask did you make yourself Genestealer that has Two-Weapon wielder as not one Genestealer (Landholm, Vectorii, Aurum or Pure) in DH or DW books has Two weapon wielder talent. :unsure:

 

Everything is always in the GM's hand if he wants to make opponents more deadly.  :D

 

Gonna mod Tyranids from DW to OW campaing. I think my players, they are playing Armageddon/Krieg regiment, think they are against Orks  :ph34r:


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Muutokselle annamme Elämän, Elämälle annamme Muutoksen.

#8 musungu

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 02:42 AM

...as not one Genestealer (Landholm, Vectorii, Aurum or Pure) in DH or DW books has Two weapon wielder talent....

And I stand corrected, thanks. Multiple arms: yes, Two-Weapon Wielder: no. So we're back to four attacks on the factory standard GS. Not that it's not enough to dismember a SM :) And one more heads-up: players only rarely check the ceiling :D



#9 Routa-maa

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 03:01 AM

Or air ducts. Beware the Ninja aliens  :ph34r:


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Muutokselle annamme Elämän, Elämälle annamme Muutoksen.

#10 herichimo

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 03:07 PM

musungu is correct (eventually).
 

A genestealer has

 

Half action attack:

1 base
 

Using the multiple attack action (Full action)

1 base
+2 from Lightning Attack
+1 from Multiple Arms

CHOICE to add +1 from Two Weapon Wielder, but applies a -10 penalty to ALL attacks using that action.

 

So a maximum of 5 attacks with a -10 penalty, or up to 4 without.

 

Go with the genestealer in Mark of Xenos. The Aurum genestealers are rediculously overpowered (Always attacking with max attacks even on a charge, rending on claws which already had high pen value so it was pointless, enough damage on an attack even a veteran brother would be near dead from 1 attack, could cover over 60 meters on a charge). This was a theme with many of the early Deathwatch books, since the players were "space marines" many of the enemies were made overly powerful to "make them a threat", instead of using numbers, tactics, and narative. In otherwords, they copped out and took the easy way. The Mark of Xenos genestealers are still powerful and deadly, just not so rediculously so.


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#11 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 02:19 AM

Mark of Xenos Genestealers contain glaring mistakes.


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 05 February 2014 - 02:28 AM.


#12 musungu

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 02:37 AM

bogi_khaosa, could you elaborate a little more on this?



#13 herichimo

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 03:16 PM

Yes please, don't leave us hanging.

 

Did you mean the mispelling of kilometer?


Edited by herichimo, 05 February 2014 - 03:26 PM.


#14 Gurkhal

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 11:51 AM

Man, do I feel stupid. I only gav my Genestealer 3 attacks. But I think that I might have to step up the game a little to the next encounter. :D



#15 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 07:36 PM

bogi_khaosa, could you elaborate a little more on this?

 

Sorry, I meant that it' doesn't have several skills it logically should have and that the damage for its attacks is calculated incorrectly.

 

Now this isn't at the level of the Lictor writeup, which has two Size values!



#16 pearldrum1

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 07:44 PM

Man, do I feel stupid. I only gav my Genestealer 3 attacks. But I think that I might have to step up the game a little to the next encounter. :D

 

Bring it. 

 

(I am playing in this game).



#17 pearldrum1

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 07:44 PM

 

bogi_khaosa, could you elaborate a little more on this?

 

Sorry, I meant that it' doesn't have several skills it logically should have and that the damage for its attacks is calculated incorrectly.

 

Now this isn't at the level of the Lictor writeup, which has two Size values!

 

 

I swear sometimes they are just messing with us on purpose.



#18 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 04:57 PM

 

 

bogi_khaosa, could you elaborate a little more on this?

 

Sorry, I meant that it' doesn't have several skills it logically should have and that the damage for its attacks is calculated incorrectly.

 

Now this isn't at the level of the Lictor writeup, which has two Size values!

 

 

I swear sometimes they are just messing with us on purpose.

 

 

Maybe the Lictor is Huge normally, but Enormous after a snack?


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#19 pearldrum1

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 05:16 PM

Ah, now we are getting to the meat and potatoes of it all.

 

They are accounting for size both pre AND post snack time. GOOD GUY FFG.






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