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woops! PCs AP too high...


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#41 Gregorius21778

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 10:01 AM

 best quality carapace armour with a shield giving him 12-15AP in various locations.
(...)

The problem is, he soaks pretty much all damage from any none heavy weapon, meaning combat is pretty stuffed.
I want to know ways to threaten him, without resorting to weapons that would out right kill him if they pen'd (MP lascannon for example) and still offer a fun gaming experience for the rest of the group.  (...)

Any ideas?

I forgot something rather simple: that hefty guy with that chain axe

Nothing but a ST:40 opponent with the "Crushing Blow" Talent, wielding a chain axe. 1d10+10 dmg // AP:2 // tearing.
As long as the opposition makes use of trained/dedicated fighters, this one is both belieavable AND able to punch above his weight. Not mutation or "strange stuff" or anything needed.




 


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#42 Crispin

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 04:45 AM

I have the same problem as you have. My acolytes have full carapace armour and decent TB, which gives them a minimum of 9 AP across the party. When faced with opponents that use natural attacks gives them AP of 15 at least. Add to the fact that they are so well armed and lucky with their rules (especially the assassin and the psyker), they can devastate most opponents within 2 rounds. That's why I figure the best way to deal with them is to hit them hard and fast with assault rifles i.e.

 

In one fight I attacked my party of 4 acolytes with 9 mutants. The mutants lowered my psyker down to -5 critical wounds in one round and delt minimal damage to the rest of the party.. The assassin proceeded to kill two mutants the next round (within 2 m of each other) and the psyker healed himself to full wounds. Needless to say, 4 more mutants died the next round while the survivors fled. 

 

For the next battle I think I'm gonna toss some gun servitors at them and later have them enter a booby trapped room that will send a couple of their limbs flying. That way I'll teach them the value of a savings account for emergencies.. :)



#43 Covered in Weasels

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 11:09 AM

Accurate weapons are an excellent solution to heavily armored enemies. With a good attack roll, a simple hunting rifle with manstopper rounds can deal 3d10+4 damage with 3 Pen (though only one damage die can cause RF).


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#44 Mikmaxs

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 03:32 PM

Similar to 'The Hefty Guy With the Chainaxe', Power Blades and Swords are equally deadly but they really shine against armor without inflicting such massive damage to everyone else. (With Tearing, a Chainaxe will absolutely murder any unarmored target, and injure any armored target. With AP6 and one point more damage, the Power Sword will murder armored targets and merely injure unarmored targets. Win Win.) 

One guy with Swift or Lightning Attack and a Power Sword can really screw over armored cans.



#45 javcs

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 05:38 PM

Similar to 'The Hefty Guy With the Chainaxe', Power Blades and Swords are equally deadly but they really shine against armor without inflicting such massive damage to everyone else. (With Tearing, a Chainaxe will absolutely murder any unarmored target, and injure any armored target. With AP6 and one point more damage, the Power Sword will murder armored targets and merely injure unarmored targets. Win Win.) 

One guy with Swift or Lightning Attack and a Power Sword can really screw over armored cans.

Problem enemies running power weapons is that the players are going to steal them from the dead.

What you do is you use a Daemon weapon or two ... it's pretty easy for them to bypass armor or have funky effects. And, they're both not easy to dispose of for funds and they are also not something that the PCs will pick up and use themselves without a second thought.

 

Use one-shot expendables as much as possible - first, they're cheaper and easier to acquire, second, any that don't get used and thus get captured by the PCs will be less potentially destabilizing.



#46 ColArana

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 06:12 PM

 

Similar to 'The Hefty Guy With the Chainaxe', Power Blades and Swords are equally deadly but they really shine against armor without inflicting such massive damage to everyone else. (With Tearing, a Chainaxe will absolutely murder any unarmored target, and injure any armored target. With AP6 and one point more damage, the Power Sword will murder armored targets and merely injure unarmored targets. Win Win.) 

One guy with Swift or Lightning Attack and a Power Sword can really screw over armored cans.

Problem enemies running power weapons is that the players are going to steal them from the dead.

 

Mark them up with heretical symbols that no honest Acolyte would take under fear of being branded a heretic just for carrying them?



#47 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 06:05 PM

The characters are basically religious cops. Stealing from the dead is completely out of character and suspension of disbelief-breaking.



#48 javcs

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 09:07 PM

The characters are basically religious cops. Stealing from the dead is completely out of character and suspension of disbelief-breaking.

Not really. The tradition of siezing/confiscating valuables/weapons from the dead/dead heretics/defeated enemies is a very long one. Admittedly, the extent to which that happens has varied historically, but it's pretty standard.

Besides, it's the PC's confiscating them in the name of the Inquisition/Arbites/Ecclesiarchy/etc, so as to deny them to any future heretics/criminals, and to put those that can be used into the service of the God-Emperor. Ignoring the PCs with criminal backgrounds who'll steal the stuff more or less on principle/out of reflex.

 

 

Also ... if you think that PCs won't grab anything they can, I really have to wonder who/what kind of games you've been playing with.


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#49 doomande

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 02:29 AM

Also ... if you think that PCs won't grab anything they can, I really have to wonder who/what kind of games you've been playing with.

 

People that didn´t start out playing dungeons and dragons and other such loot centred games.

 

Just make it pretty clear for the players that unless that they can come up for a reason as for why they should take something with them do they really not have to loot since it isn´t fitting into the setting, as said in another thread, either is the loot from heritics, owned by other parts of the emperium that wants it back, or from xenos, take your pick of who and how you will piss people of.

 

Beside that and even more of topic than it already is, throw some limitations on how much they can take with them (1 melee, 1 pistol, 1 basic, 1 "light" armour and 1 grenades with 3 reloads for all things that need that, each other thing that they want costing a point from their combined Strength Toughness stat bonus pool. That is at least how we play.) and you will quickly see them behave.

 

And back to the subject, there is a single pyromancer power that makes one ignore both toughness and armour... maybe is it time for them to meet a psyker of that school


Sure some say blood for the blood god, skulls for the skull throne... I say muffins for the muffin god! Derp for the master derper!


#50 ColArana

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 02:44 AM

Just make it pretty clear for the players that unless that they can come up for a reason as for why they should take something with them

 

In my own group the reasoning: "It's better than the gun/sword I'm using" generally flies with my GM, unless the weapon is quite obviously heretical (whether through Tech Heresy or actual Heresy). Maybe it's different in your group, but if the enemy is carrying a weapon that is better than what the Acolytes have, and it is reasonable that they might use it after defeating their foe, I would expect them to grab it after the fight under the reasoning: "It makes it easier to kill Heretics."



#51 javcs

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 04:42 AM

 

Also ... if you think that PCs won't grab anything they can, I really have to wonder who/what kind of games you've been playing with.

 

People that didn´t start out playing dungeons and dragons and other such loot centred games.

 

Just make it pretty clear for the players that unless that they can come up for a reason as for why they should take something with them do they really not have to loot since it isn´t fitting into the setting, as said in another thread, either is the loot from heritics, owned by other parts of the emperium that wants it back, or from xenos, take your pick of who and how you will piss people of.

 

Beside that and even more of topic than it already is, throw some limitations on how much they can take with them (1 melee, 1 pistol, 1 basic, 1 "light" armour and 1 grenades with 3 reloads for all things that need that, each other thing that they want costing a point from their combined Strength Toughness stat bonus pool. That is at least how we play.) and you will quickly see them behave.

 

And back to the subject, there is a single pyromancer power that makes one ignore both toughness and armour... maybe is it time for them to meet a psyker of that school

 

Seizure to better kill heretics/xenos, to give to AdMech/whoever to study, to examine for information, to run past the records for use in prior activities/events, to deny access to any that haven't been dealt with yet, for use in undercover/deniable operations, give to the AdMech to pacify the machine spirits for having been misused, etc. There are all kinds of good reasons why taking everything you can carry and examining them in detail back at base is a good idea - anything not needed can be allocated to the Acolytes/Inquisitor's version of the Arbites Cold Vaults - the Arbites collect weapons used by recidivists/heretics/xenos/etc that they deal with and keep them in vaults, they serve as a ready resource for research and training, as well as for supplying undercover agents/teams, and the occasional Inquisitor/Judge stops by to see what's been captured recently. Trade them into the quartermaster for goodwill or better stuff.

Knowledge is power. Examining the weapons of your enemies is generally going to be a good idea - if nothing else, it gives you information on how well resourced and backed they are, and at least some of the weapons may be traceable to other events/activities, or other people.

Also ... there is absolutely no way I can believe that anyone would leave valuable items lying around where the next person to walk by could grab them. Nor can I believe that an Inquisitor would be particularly pleased with a team that just left stuff lying about all the time - sure, maybe they don't haul it back themselves, but when possible, calling for a retrieval/verispex team to take a look at things and clear out the stuff and the bodies. True, some of it might well be returned to the rightful owner/heir, but it's going to be examined to be verified clean of taint (be it xenos, warp, heretekal, etc).

Sure, the players very well might not utilize very much of the stuff they grab, but there's no good reason to leave it in circulation for the next batch of lunatics or criminals to get their hands on.

 

On the carrying stuff ... playing by the weight limits actually works reasonably well. Also, if a GM ever tried to limit what players could have with them that bluntly/crudely on a regular basis, I do not know anyone who would put up with that for long. I can understand making players explain where they're carrying everything, which does a pretty solid job too.



#52 DeathByGrotz

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 04:59 AM

I'm an NPC and see heavily armoured acolytes. I only have the basic weaponry that is reasonable for me to have. Conversely, I know the environment and they don't. What do I do?

 

Grenade them when they walk past some prometheum barrels.

Seal them in an airtight meat locker or other place where they may well suffocate or freeze to death.

Board that junkyard crane and try to squish them with derelict vehicles.

Get my mutant friends to push down a garbage dumpster or other heavy object on their heads from several stories up.

Armour's awesome. Armour and no gas masks is hilarious. Drug them with hallucinogenics and watch them try to kill each other on a lucky roll.



#53 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 08:33 PM

I say the following.

 

Characters should only be wearing this kind of armour, which is very bulky and noticeable, if they are expecting serious combat. In which case they should be well protected, or they will die. And presumably the opponents will be similarly equipped. So it's fine.

 

If they are doing undercover work, or are in any situation other than expecting serious combat, they won't be wearing such armor, or any armor. So it's fine.


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#54 segara82

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:22 AM

I currently have my group of Acolytes run around on a Feudal world looking for stolen relics and books (no, nothing demonic) that got taken from the crypt of a lower saint.

The Sororitas in her P.A. is giggling thinking that nothing here can really hurt her (AP 16 + TB 3.

I deflated her very soon by simply pointing out that:
these black powder using cannons or a trebuchet still dishes out damage with 3d10+8,
she can still fall to her death,
drown in a moat,
get flattened by a big boulder,
5 medium strong peasants could simply carry her away (SB 23 + 20 for P.A. sucks),
...

I did not even mention the possibilities of two-handed mono-weapons, firebombs and other nastinesses.

Edited by segara82, 27 August 2014 - 01:23 AM.

Courage is the mastery of fear - not the absence of fear


#55 doomande

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:50 AM

Just let her run out of power and see how she are doing then ;)


Sure some say blood for the blood god, skulls for the skull throne... I say muffins for the muffin god! Derp for the master derper!


#56 darkforce

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 03:40 AM

Just let her run out of power and see how she are doing then ;)

 

Tehee... makes for a good witch-process, throwing her into a river when unpowered...


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#57 segara82

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 06:58 AM

We have a Tech-Priest to recharge the batteries. That is not the problem (but a good idea).

No, literally 4-5 average humans (SB3) could carry her away. She sucks at close combat, agility and has a low natural strength.
A mighty Daughter of the Emperor ... whisked away by a group of angry peasants.

Edited by segara82, 27 August 2014 - 06:59 AM.

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Courage is the mastery of fear - not the absence of fear


#58 doomande

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 07:10 AM

Well... 1d5 hours of battery time is rather random, and there can happen so many things out in the woods at night, just saying ;)

 

About the people dragging her away, if they knew that they should pull off her backpack, or just tries to take it because loots... well I think that you get my general idea ;)


Sure some say blood for the blood god, skulls for the skull throne... I say muffins for the muffin god! Derp for the master derper!


#59 javcs

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 07:19 AM

Pretty sure that the Sororitas Armor comes with a military grade power supply, meaning a week of powered combat ops.

Unless their armor comes with an indefinite power supply like the Astartes get.



#60 doomande

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 07:40 AM

Derp my bad, you are right Javcs, they do actually get the fusion generator power packs, so there are no change of her running out of power soon... Too bad, I would have loved to hear more about the adventures of the unpowered sister :/


Sure some say blood for the blood god, skulls for the skull throne... I say muffins for the muffin god! Derp for the master derper!





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