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#1 Demoncow

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 02:27 PM

Ok, so, very stupid question:

 

The OL reward on the advanced quest card "armed to the teeth" from LoW says that before the finale the OL can return it to the game box to claim an unclaimed relic.  

 

So what happens if you have LoW, LoR and Tf and we are doing say the LoR campaign using both rumor decks which relics can he claim? LoR clearly LoW yes because its from that pack Tf ok because we're using those rumors but can he get one that is only used in the shadow rune? 

I'd be inclined to say no.

 

Thanks in advance


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#2 KtuluCaller

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 03:16 PM

I would think the OL can claim any unclaimed relic, especially from the base game.



#3 Demoncow

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 03:35 PM

Ok, but what if you're playing the shadow rune, can he claim one from LoR?


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#4 Steve-O

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 08:37 PM

Personally, I would say Shadow Rune relics are off limits if you're playing the Labyrinth of Ruin main campaign.  And vice versa if you're playing Shadow Rune.  You only play with one main campaign at a time, so other main campaigns are out of play.

 

Small box relics are fair game as long as the rumours from that box are being used, because those quests are then "in play."

 

I suppose an argument could be made that rumour quest relics are only valid if the OL played the appropriate rumour quest during Act I/Act II.  On the up side, that gives the OL a reason to actually play rumour quests once in a while.  On the down side, it requires you to keep track of which rumours were played, even if they were never chosen.



#5 BentoSan

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 03:10 AM

This is a really good question to put forward to FFG !

 

I can really see thematic reasons to go both ways on this, this a treasure hoarding dragon after all. She will have access to lots of goodies the heroes have not seen in their lifetimes. Also the heroes lost... the overlord doesn't really get many incentives to play expansion quests, so this is really a good incentive.

 

On the flip side if gives the overlord the opportunity to nab a really good relic that the heroes have not even had a single shot at getting which could be seen as unfair on the heroes. It also could be seen as not making thematic sense because other heroes might have nabbed those relics.

 

Id definitely like to hear what FFG would say about this.



#6 Demoncow

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 10:02 PM

OK, just asked...

 

waiting for an answer


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#7 Demoncow

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 02:34 PM

Ok, just got an answer,

 

Hey Demoncow,

 
It can be any relic that hasn't been claimed from any included expansion.

Thanks,
Justin Kemppainen
Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games

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#8 KtuluCaller

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 02:45 PM

"...from any included expansion."  So, am I correct in assuming that "armed to the teeth" cannot be exchanged for an unclaimed relic from the base game (i.e. the Shadow Rune campaign)?


Edited by KtuluCaller, 04 February 2014 - 02:46 PM.


#9 Demoncow

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 04:17 PM

I guess that since the OL can use monsters and cards from the base game that it counts as an included expansion.

 

i believe the problem lies in the instructions for combining expansions. They say to mix all components and that includes relics.

(i know all mine are in 1 rubber band)

 

So i believe you can choose any relic because the rules don't actually say that relics are specific to campaigns

 

to clarify i guess even if you aren't using Tf rumors but any player has access to any of it's components then it would technically be "in play"

 

so yes ANY relic may be claimed

 

 

which is VERY OP


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#10 Zogwort

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 04:22 PM

I think it is pretty straight forward to me. The quest reward allows the OL to pick an unclaimed relic at the start of the Finale. If you aren't playing the Shadow Rune campaign then the Shadow Rune relic will definitely qualify as an unclaimed relic.

 

Of course you're free to house rule as you wish, but since you're expected to combine all components of each expansion into your game (monster groups, classes, tokens, etc), it doesn't make sense that somehow relics are an exception to this.


Edited by Zogwort, 04 February 2014 - 04:28 PM.


#11 Demoncow

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 04:44 PM

my thoughts exactly. I just still think it's OP


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#12 griton

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 10:22 AM

They say to mix all components and that includes relics.

...

So i believe you can choose any relic because the rules don't actually say that relics are specific to campaigns

since you're expected to combine all components of each expansion into your game (monster groups, classes, tokens, etc), it doesn't make sense that somehow relics are an exception to this.

 

Firstly, neither of these statements are true. If you look at the expansion rules (in Labyrinth of Ruin, for example) it says (emphasis as written in the rules):

The new Labyrinth of Ruin Lieutenant, Relic, Ally, and Ally Skill cards are used only when specified in a quest included in this expansion.

 

This is also repeated again in Expansion set up:

2. Set Aside Campaign Cards: Place the Lieutenant, Relic, Ally, and Ally Skill cards from this expansion aside. They are used only when playing the “Labyrinth of Ruin” campaign.

 

That said, Justin has clarified that the rules of that quest reward are an exception to the general rules. But using "It says to mix them all together" as a justification for a rules decision would be an incorrect method of coming to that decision, because it specifically says NOT to.

 

While I would probably allow for any Relic from the base set, it's still unclear if Justin intends the base set to be allowed as it's not technically an expansion. Personally, I think that if he meant it to be excluded, he would've said so, but it could be argued that he is just referring to additional relics from actual expansions. (But in that case, if playing The Shadow Rune campaign, then you couldn't take other Shadow Rune relics, which wouldn't make sense)

 

If you aren't playing the Shadow Rune campaign then the Shadow Rune relic will definitely qualify as an unclaimed relic.

Even under the assumption that you do include Relics from the core set, this would be completely pointless as Zachareth is the only Lieutenant than can wield The Shadow Rune, and, unless I'm mistaken, if you aren't playing The Shadow Rune campaign, Zachareth doesn't appear as a Lieutenant. (That said, it is possible that he could make a resurgence in another campaign, or in a Home Brew one, which would allow for it.) Even if you are using his Plot Deck, when you summon him, it is as an Agent, which is NOT a Lieutenant, and CAN'T wield Relics. If you are playing The Shadow Rune campaign, then The Shadow Rune Relic will have been claimed by that point, so it wouldn't count as an option.


Edited by griton, 05 February 2014 - 10:28 AM.


#13 BentoSan

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 12:09 AM

If we knew the exact question that he posed, then it might give us a bit more information about the answer



#14 Demoncow

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 10:23 AM

sure here

 

Rule Question:
On the advanced quest card "Armed to the Teeth" the OL reward says "return this card to the game box before setting up the Finale to claim 1 unclaimed Relic.

So, my question, which relics can you choose from say if you have LoW, LoR, and Tf, and you are playing the LoR campaign and using rumors from both LoW and Tf. can you choose a Relic from say the base game or does it have to be from LoR because that is the campaign or can you take a LoW one because it's a LoW card or can you also take a Tf one because you are using those rumors.

The card itself does not specify. I know i would be mad if my OL pulled the duskblade for Ariad.


Thanks,
Demoncow


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#15 griton

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 10:26 AM

If we knew the exact question that he posed, then it might give us a bit more information about the answer

 

This is ALWAYS a good idea when posting your answer. FFG is notorious for answering very succinctly and only answering the specific question that was asked, which may or may not provide insight to general rulings depending on what question was asked and how it was phrased.


Edited by griton, 10 February 2014 - 10:27 AM.


#16 Demoncow

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 03:21 PM

Ok , sorry, first question asked.


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#17 griton

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 09:56 AM

Ok , sorry, first question asked.

No problem, just letting you (and others) know that it's a really good idea to do so. We've seen a couple cases in the past where someone has posted FFG's answer, and related cases weren't necessarily solved because nobody else knew exactly what question was asked.



#18 Demoncow

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 07:17 PM

Alright, got it, thanks for your help!!


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#19 rfisha

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 02:58 AM

Great question.  

 

I never noticed that Relics weren't mixed in the deck between expansions, my eyes glazed over that bit.  I'll take a note of that for the future.

 

This should be added to BGG's faqs - can anyone do this? (I know you can technically, but is it considered rude)


Edited by rfisha, 14 February 2014 - 03:00 AM.


#20 griton

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 10:08 AM

I never noticed that Relics weren't mixed in the deck between expansions, my eyes glazed over that bit.  I'll take a note of that for the future.

Really, this does seem to be a technicality. Especially considering the ruling that for things like this, you can use any relic from any included set when something says "any unclaimed relic". It's most likely there to make it easier to find the ones you need since you'll rarely ever use ones that aren't associated with the appropriate quest.

 

 

This should be added to BGG's faqs - can anyone do this? (I know you can technically, but is it considered rude)

There are a couple FFG Sez threads (Links at the top of the FAQ) that you post your response to, and someone will merge that answer into the FAQ. 


Edited by griton, 14 February 2014 - 10:08 AM.





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