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Any suggestions, having many corp troubles...


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#1 AussieKSU

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 01:11 AM

I think the corp lacks many pieces of really meaningful ice. Being an old netrunner player as well, I notice it is far harder to secure many data forts, and keep the runner out. The runner SNOWBALLS very hard, which means many of the tourny decks have the intent that a corp deck will lose, and just try to turbo score more than the opposition's corp deck.

 

Edit: ^ perhaps a little bit of an assumption, but just looking at current meta.

 

Many of the runner cards (and I understand many will disagree) are overpowered. Self Modifying code comes to mind as being ridiculous. An on demand response to the few relevent pieces of ice that are rezzed - with the ability to search MID RUN. Compare it to special order... not even close.

 

Scheherazade comes to mind as another ridiculous option. I understand people will state that the threat of losing it is nailbiting, but I don't understand how you are losing this guy when there is very little risk in a "trash a program" routine actually going off once you are sufficiently GOD MODED (all breakers online, and never ending credit gen in the form of Mangum OPus or Katie Jones). All your MU problems solved in... one card. Power Shutdown was a nice counter to this, but with the aforementioned self modifying code, likely hosted, and rebounded with clone chips, I find it a difficult target.

 

Edit: As pointed out by frybender, this is INCORRECT. Scheherezade does not make MU for hosted programs cost 0, duh :).

 

Sustained credit gen solutions are simple to acquire for the runner. The two sound options in my opinion are Katie Jones and Magnum Opus... all your credit generation solved in one card - the corp must look for multiple solutions because credit generating assets are all trashable (hence not sustainable) or one shot operations, as well not sustainable. Even though runner cards can at times be trashed, the runner almost always has to engage to threated these installed cards.

 

Our games typically turn into a snowballed runner massing a credit pool to break whatever, and just waiting for the corp to install something. If your solution is traps, then a simple reveal diffuses threats here.

 

Edit: ^ I have tried trap Jinteki, speed operations. There are even few meaningful traps here even if you DO happen to fool the runner. A wise runner who keeps a full hand has no real fear of junebugs, or heaven forbid SNARE's. Sure an aggresive secretary can change the tables, but it is very difficult for such a deck to actually protect, well, the central forts. Consider a junebug with 2 advancement counters. Costs the corp a card, x2 credits, x3 clicks (one to install, two to advance). In all costs 5 resources + 1 credit to use... Costs the runner FOR MAKING A MISTAKE AND RUNNING ON IT.... 4 resources (4 cards). Draw back up - next!

 

Not to mention against any heavy trap deck, when in GOD MODE, just V A M P away... supreme trap protection.

 

Turbo score corp decks aren't working that wonderfully either. The corp needs to draw about 18 cards to introduce 7 agenda points into the game (49 card deck, 20 agenda points in the deck, .408 agenda points per card, 17.15 cards to introduce 7 points). Sure you might score a few before the runner has reached GOD MODE, but 7 points... i doubt it. Not to mention any turbo score deck is going to lack relevent late game ice, making an ONLINE runner (and if you can't get online before the corp draws 18 cards, and scores 7 agenda points, then well....) even more out of control.


Edited by AussieKSU, 03 February 2014 - 09:39 PM.


#2 CommissarFeesh

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 04:41 AM

If you're consistently losing with corp at this point in the meta, I think you need yo take a good look at your corp decks. There are plenty of routes to corp victory, and many excellent corp cards have been released this cycle.

If you find runners just sot back and amass credits, change your playstyle. Don't rely so much on hard ETR and go for more taxing ICE instead. Remember, you only have to rez it once, they pay to break it every time.

Drop high trash cost assets in your remotes to force runs. Alternate them with agendas and non-advanceable traps like Edge of World. If you're concerned about expose then pack Zaibatsu loyalty.

Sorry if this sounds like an attack, but the game is actually very well balanced (some IDs notwithstanding) so to say that corp in general is getting a raw deal is just wrong.
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#3 Grimwalker

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 07:47 AM

The points he mentions above are why Fast-Advance and Tag & Bag corp strategies are heavily represented in the meta right now.

 

He's not wrong, but it's first-room thinking. There is more to ANR than "build servers to keep the runner out" and there's more to the runner side than "build rig and pay to get into servers."

 

Something Damon Stone said at gen con last year talking about NBN--"You want in? Come in, I don't mind. I'll *let* you in. Those four pieces of ice, don't worry about them, none of them end the run. By the way, here's a tag. Here's two tags. That remote? Sorry, Ghost Branch, four more tags."

NBN is not about End The Run--it's about taxing the runner, like Feesh said, giving them servers that cost them money to run through. It's why I use ice like RSVP and Snoop and even a Data Hound from time to time. They can break them, sure, but it costs them money every time. Meanwhile I'm tagging, Closing Accounts, Invading Privacy, and messing with *them.*

 

Jinteki is very difficult to play well, but is also not about End the Run, it's about presenting the runner with unacceptable risks and sheer timewasting. My last game with my RP deck, I put a Sundew behind a Chimera. He ran it *every turn* for maybe five turns in a row, just to make me spend the 2 credits Sundew gave me. I didn't mind. Because that's a click to run centrals and a click to run the remote, I'm happy to let him have 2 clicks per turn to actually try and win with. Let alone what happens when he hits a Shock and has to draw back up.

Weyland has a lot of End The Run ice, but that's also not their only trick. Weyland doesn't start fights, but is generally ready to finish them. Running against Weyland means taking extra time to not let the corp turn you into a fine red mist because you never know when that agenda you could pretty much get to is bait for a SEA source or Punitive counterstrike.

 

Bottom line, there's a lot corps can do that have nothing to do with what rig the runner has or how much money. Try playing a nearly iceless Jinteki or NBN deck and laugh as the runner invests time and effort into building a rig that won't help them win.


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#4 frybender

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 09:56 AM

I have to agree with the rest here that at this point in the game you should not be losing with the corp as much as you're losing with the runner (actually you should probably be losing about the same with each). I think your main issue is that you're really not supposed to play the corp  in a "I'm just going to take 8 turns and build an unbreakable server and then advance my agendas behind it." As you yourself pointed out that will never work because the runner will always be able to get in. The game wouldn't be very fun if it was the other way around because then every corp would just take their time and create unbreakable servers and the runner would have to sit there unable to do anything. The way that the corp has to play (as everyone here has already pointed out) is to mess with the runner through their ice. The corp has lots of ways of doing that. Matrix analyzer may seem like a leaky pathetic piece of ice but when you're running on a card that has 2 advancements on it and all of a sudden it turns into three well... Or put it in front of an ice wall and watch it grow. And by the way you may think that the runner is in control and the games snowball to their advantage but I guarantee you that a competent runner is terrified every time he goes up against NBN and there is a card installed in a server he can't get to. When anyone talks about snowballing they usually talk about scoring Astroscripts.

 

Also one of the reasons you're losing is because you're playing wrong. This is a very common mistake but Scheherazade does not solve any MU problems whatsoever. It actually give no MU advantage whatsoever since cards hosted on Scheherazade still cost the same MU.


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#5 AussieKSU

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Posted 03 February 2014 - 09:38 PM

Aha, was certainly playing scheherezade incorrectly! Wow, that makes a huge difference! Thank you very much for all comments.






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