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Nanok Heroic Feat, Dark Fortune, and anything else happening "After rolling dice"


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#1 jadedbacon

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 02:39 PM

So quick question.  When something can be used "after rolling dice" (may not be exact wording) is it directly after the rolling dice part of the attack, or can it be used at any time after the dice have been rolled.

 

I could've sworn I saw that it could be used anytime after the dice are rolled, but I can't find an official (or unofficial as the case may be) response.


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#2 bigObob

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 03:04 PM

Is this as hero or OL?

I know there are a few OL cards like this. I would assume you have to use it right after rolling the dice, before you start your next action/end of turn.



#3 jadedbacon

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 03:12 PM

Well I meant within the same attack.  So if say Nanok doesn't use his Heroic feat, but then the OL plays Critical Blow.  Can Nanok then respond with the Heroic Feat?


Never believe in "never"

- Algus Sadalfas


#4 BentoSan

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 03:19 PM

My interpretation of the rules is that it can be played from anytime after the dice has been rolled but before the attack is completely resolved.

So to answer your last question: yes

Edited by BentoSan, 30 January 2014 - 03:21 PM.


#5 Zyllos

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 04:52 PM

I may be completely wrong or off, but doesn't it state somewhere in the base rules that the attacker must play all abilities and effects before the defender uses abilities and effects?

 

So, the way I view the actions is in this manner:

 

Assume OL is the attacker and defender is Nanok.

  1. OL, the attacker, plays any abilities or effects that happen before dice are rolled.
  2. Nanok, the defender, plays any abilities or effects that happen before dice are rolled.
  3. Both OL and Nanok player rolls dice.
  4. OL, the attacker chooses to play any abilities or effects that could change the outcome (like rerolling, adding surges, adding conditions, ect).
  5. Nanok, the defender, chooses to play any abilities or effects that could change the outcome (like rerolling, adding defense, ignoring effects, ect).
  6. OL, the attacker, spends surges then calculates all damage and effects that will be activated.
  7. Nanok, the defender, subtracts any defense from the damage rolled.

Basically, what this does is it always lets the defender see everything the attacker will do to affect the dice before the defender makes their choices. But, since damage and surges are not determined until both sides has played their abilities and effects, the attacker can make a "good" choice on how to use the surges.

 

A good example is anything that adds +1 damage for a hero. If a surge is rolled, the defender, the OL, must make the choice now before damage is calculated and surges spent to increase the defense to counter the +1 damage on surge used. But in doing so, the attacker, Nanok, could instead just spend the surge to gain a fatigue because the OL has used an ability to increase the defense.

 

This will keep the game from doing a back-and-forth, stack-like, situation like some card games where players respond to other's actions.

 

So, to answer your question, Nanok gets to see everything the OL will do to effect the dice, but not how the OL will spend the surges, before using the heroic feat to cancel the attack.


Edited by Zyllos, 05 February 2014 - 05:14 PM.


#6 griton

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 09:39 AM

I may be completely wrong or off, but doesn't it state somewhere in the base rules that the attacker must play all abilities and effects before the defender uses abilities and effects?

 

I don't remember anything like this. Abilities often have a triggering condition or a specific time that they can be used, and they can be used at any point when that triggering condition is applicable. So "When you are attacked, after dice are rolled" is applicable at any point after the dice have been rolled, but before the attack resolution has completed.

 

In practice, I haven't actually seen any problems arising from ability use. We've just always allowed for adjustment to new information / decisions and it tends to work out.

 

In the case that there are two abilities that trigger on the same condition, and are being played by different players, whoever's turn it is gets to make the call. (That IS in the rules)






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