And we go for more Questions!

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#1 Krawallburste

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 07:50 PM

Hello Community.

I got into a lot hot arguments with my party tonight and am in dire need of some clarifications please = )

Treasure Hunter
1) the Treasure Hunters skill "sleight of Hand" gives him Pierce 2, when he has an exotic weapon equipped. does he also gain the pierce when the exotic weapon is NOT the weapon he's attacking with?

Prophet
2) a Prophet performs an attribute test and exhausts his Sage's Tome to substract 1 shield from the roll. The roll gets "befuddled" by the OL.

Sage's Tome: "Exhaust this card before rolling dice for an attribute test to substract 1 shield from the results."

Befuddle: "Play this card after a hero passes an attribute test. The hero must reroll the test and add 1 shield to the results."

now my party argues, that it is a REroll, ergo the SAME roll. They wanted to apply Sage's Tome boost on both attacks. Is this legit?

3) is a prophet able to REVIVE a Hero with his Insight token, which would result in an all-over-the-map-revive?

rule page 15: "... hero players may only target a knocked out hero to recover any amount of damage."

Soothing Insight: "Exhaust this card during your turn. You or 1 hero of your choice gains the insight token. When a hero gains the insight token, he recovers 1 Damage and 1 Fatigue."

4) Battlevision: "Each hero within 2 spaces of the hero with the insight token may suffer 2 Fatigue to reroll 1 attack die once each attack."

Many cards, such as the Champions "Motivating Charge" have the triggering condition: "...XY in a range of 3 (including yourself)". So my Question is, whether the player HOLDING the insight token is allowed to sufer 2 fatigue, since he es a hero within 2 spaces?

5) when determining spaces within a range of XY, do the 3 spaces need to be 3 adjacent spaces?

in both examples below O's are empty spaces, X is the Auragiver and H/H* are Heroes

OOOOOOH*
OOOOOHO
OOOOOOO
OOOXOOO
OOOOOOO
OOOOOOO
OOOOOOO

in the example above, would hero H* be within the range of the aura? Because since the other hero is "breaking" the adjacency and you cannot count 3 spaces to the H* im not sure

OHOOOOO
OOOO
OOOO
OOOXOOO
OOOOOOO
OOOOOOO
OOOOOOO

IF example 1 is legal, wouldnt be #2 too be legal?
or am i messing something up terribly?

6) a runemaster with full fatigue performs an attack, on which he gains 2 surges. Is he able to discard 1 fatigue with 1 of the surges and then spend it again to use runic knowledge?

runic knowledge: while you have a magic or rune weapon equipped, each of your attacks gains: surge: suffer 1 fatigue to gain +2 damage.

7) Is Elder Mok able to use his heroic feat whilst being knocked out?

"Use at the start of your turn to look at the overlord's hand of Overlord cards. Discard 1 of your choice."

#2 Krawallburste

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 07:51 PM

urs - krawallbuerste!

= )

#3 Steve-O

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 08:46 PM

1) the Treasure Hunters skill "sleight of Hand" gives him Pierce 2, when he has an exotic weapon equipped. does he also gain the pierce when the exotic weapon is NOT the weapon he's attacking with?

Yes, it's legit. When you choose a weapon to attack with, you ignore any abilities of the other weapon you have equipped (assuming you have two.) However, the other weapon is still equipped. it's also still an exotic weapon.

Sleight of Hand only requires that you have an exotic weapon equipped. It does not require that you be attacking with that weapon. If that were required, it would say "when you make an attack with an exotic weapon."

Thematically, you can argue that the TH is using the exotic weapon for a feint to distract his opponent while his real attack comes from the other hand.

2) a Prophet performs an attribute test and exhausts his Sage's Tome to substract 1 shield from the roll. The roll gets "befuddled" by the OL.

Sage's Tome: "Exhaust this card before rolling dice for an attribute test to substract 1 shield from the results."

Befuddle: "Play this card after a hero passes an attribute test. The hero must reroll the test and add 1 shield to the results."

now my party argues, that it is a REroll, ergo the SAME roll. They wanted to apply Sage's Tome boost on both attacks. Is this legit?

If you have an ability that gives +1 [Wound] on an attack, and you choose to re-roll the attack (or are forced to re-roll the attack), would you still apply the +1 [Wound] bonus?

I'm inclined to say yes, Sage's Tome still applies to the re-roll. You could ask FFG about it though, I could see them going the other way.

3) is a prophet able to REVIVE a Hero with his Insight token, which would result in an all-over-the-map-revive?

rule page 15: "... hero players may only target a knocked out hero to recover any amount of damage."

Soothing Insight: "Exhaust this card during your turn. You or 1 hero of your choice gains the insight token. When a hero gains the insight token, he recovers 1 Damage and 1 Fatigue."

No, FFG has already clarified that a KO'd hero cannot be targeted by Soothing Insight to gain the insight token. Gaining the insight token is what triggers the healing. There was another fairly lengthy thread about this one not too long ago, it should still be near the front of the forum if you want to dig it up.

4) Battlevision: "Each hero within 2 spaces of the hero with the insight token may suffer 2 Fatigue to reroll 1 attack die once each attack."

Many cards, such as the Champions "Motivating Charge" have the triggering condition: "...XY in a range of 3 (including yourself)". So my Question is, whether the player HOLDING the insight token is allowed to sufer 2 fatigue, since he es a hero within 2 spaces?

I'm inclined to think that a hero is always within X spaces of himself, but I may be forgetting something FFG ruled on.

5) when determining spaces within a range of XY, do the 3 spaces need to be 3 adjacent spaces?

You use the rules for counting spaces found on page 11 of the rulebook. Yes, the spaces need to be adjacent, but they do not need to be empty. Only obstacles (red border) need to be "counted around."

in the example above, would hero H* be within the range of the aura? Because since the other hero is "breaking" the adjacency and you cannot count 3 spaces to the H* im not sure

Yes, both H and H* are within 3 spaces. H's presence breaks line of sight, but it does not stop the space he occupies from being adjacent to those around it. If that were true then it would be impossible for any figure to make a melee attack!

Abilities that count spaces do not require line of sight unless they say they do, so the fact that there's no line of sight to H* is meaningless. Unless the ability says otherwise.

IF example 1 is legal, wouldnt be #2 too be legal?
or am i messing something up terribly?

I'm assuming the empty spot represents walls or edges of a tile, which must be "counted around" according to the rules for counting spaces, therefore H in this case is 4 spaces away and out of range.

6) a runemaster with full fatigue performs an attack, on which he gains 2 surges. Is he able to discard 1 fatigue with 1 of the surges and then spend it again to use runic knowledge?

I know this one was asked recently, but I forget the final answer. Check the unofficial FAQ on BGG, it should hopefully be there.

7) Is Elder Mok able to use his heroic feat whilst being knocked out?

Heroes are not allowed to use ANY abilities while KO'd. The only thing he can do is Stand Up.

#4 Krawallburste

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 03:47 AM

TY very much steve O !

on 7) : my party argues, that his heroic feat is NOT an action so it can be used....

#5 Krawallburste

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 03:52 AM

i looked it up in the unofficial faq, sorry for not looking first:

as it would seem a runemaster can use it even if full fatigued - im guessing it is legal since you first surge and the attack lets u SUFFER the fatigue, you dont choose to take the fatigue in some ability sense... .

Q: Can Runemaster hero use Runic Knowledge surge ability if he has no fatigue to suffer and suffer 1 damage instead?

A: Yes he can. (1)

#6 Krawallburste

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 04:04 AM

and i dug up the forumthread - again sorry for not searching it up - it was a littl elate yesterday =)

there you have justins quote about the insight token NOT being able to revive a KO'd hero.

Because the insight token contains a number of uses in addition to the healing, the placement of it is considered to be separate from any other effects. I do agree that "after" would perhaps be a better word for it, but, regardless, the placement and effect is considered to be separate. Thus, a hero who is not considered to be on the map is not eligible to receive it.

also covered in the official faq (duh!)

Q: Can the Prophet use “Soothing Insight” to place the insight token on a
hero who is knocked-out?
A: No.

#7 griton

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 10:46 AM

Prophet

2) a Prophet performs an attribute test and exhausts his Sage's Tome to substract 1 shield from the roll. The roll gets "befuddled" by the OL.

Sage's Tome: "Exhaust this card before rolling dice for an attribute test to substract 1 shield from the results."

Befuddle: "Play this card after a hero passes an attribute test. The hero must reroll the test and add 1 shield to the results."

now my party argues, that it is a REroll, ergo the SAME roll. They wanted to apply Sage's Tome boost on both attacks. Is this legit?

My guess is that the "results" are referencing the "attribute test", not the dice roll, so however many dice end up being rolled, it's the end result that is modified. The same applies to Befuddle. But as Steve-O mentioned, I could also see FFG going the other way.

6) a runemaster with full fatigue performs an attack, on which he gains 2 surges. Is he able to discard 1 fatigue with 1 of the surges and then spend it again to use runic knowledge?

runic knowledge: while you have a magic or rune weapon equipped, each of your attacks gains: surge: suffer 1 fatigue to gain +2 damage.

Yes. You choose the order of the effects for how to resolve the surge expenditure, and I'm fairly certain that the fatigue recovery is immediate, not after the fact.

i looked it up in the unofficial faq, sorry for not looking first:

as it would seem a runemaster can use it even if full fatigued - im guessing it is legal since you first surge and the attack lets u SUFFER the fatigue, you dont choose to take the fatigue in some ability sense... .

Q: Can Runemaster hero use Runic Knowledge surge ability if he has no fatigue to suffer and suffer 1 damage instead?

A: Yes he can. (1)

This is slightly different than the above case. In this case, he can choose to suffer 1 wound to use Runic Knowledge instead of suffering a fatigue (which he doesn't have). Whereas in the above case, he could use 2 surges to not have to suffer that one wound because he recovers one fatigue, then spends that fatigue.

Edited by griton, 30 January 2014 - 10:47 AM.

#8 Krawallburste

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 11:10 AM

but in terms of whether a full fatigued runemaster could use or not use runic knowledge my first example gets obsolete regarding the question IF. in my case of course the hero could decide whether taking the fatigue or the damage.

#9 griton

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 11:18 AM

but in terms of whether a full fatigued runemaster could use or not use runic knowledge my first example gets obsolete regarding the question IF. in my case of course the hero could decide whether taking the fatigue or the damage.

True, but the way you go about it can be an important factor, so I wanted to make sure (for everyone) that the clarification was made as to the WHY and HOW it would happen instead of just the IF, because the former are arguably more important than the latter as they help inform other rules decisions by making us all more educated about the rationale behind these decisions and the end results after we do something.

#10 Krawallburste

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 11:53 AM

point taken : )

#11 Steve-O

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 07:46 PM

TY very much steve O !

on 7) : my party argues, that his heroic feat is NOT an action so it can be used....

The rules state that a Knocked Out hero cannot use any abilities.

Everything that a hero can do is an "ability," whether it costs an action or not.  All skills are abilities, Heroic Feats and Hero Abilities are abilities, even the effects of using a search card is an "ability" when used.  Spending fatigue to gain MPs is an ability.  Everything is an ability.

The only reason that Stand Up is allowed is because the rules for the Stand Up action explicitly allow it to be used when KO'd.

Edited by Steve-O, 30 January 2014 - 07:46 PM.

#12 Krawallburste

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 02:03 AM

for the ones interested:

2) The net result would be +1 for Befuddle and -1 for the Sage's Tome. The Sage's Tome ability still applies to the reroll.

4) Yes, the hero with the insight token is able to do this.

7) No. There are not many abilities that can be used when knocked out. Consider the Disciple's Prayer of Healing. It, too, is not an action, but it most definitely cannot be used when the Disciple is knocked out.

Thanks,
Justin Kemppainen
Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games

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