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Dark Charm Questions


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#1 Felin

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 03:09 AM

Hello

 

As specified by the subject I have some questions about Dark Charm:

 

- First one to see if I understand it correctly :

if the OL "Dark Charms" Bogran the Shadow whose capacity is

    "Each time you attack a monster adjacent to another hero, your attack gains +1 [Heart]"

if Bogran is alone and attack himself he doesn't have the +1, but if another hero is adjacent to Bogran and again he attacks himself the OL can have a +1[heart] to the attack.

 

Right?

 

-Second question more tricky:

Can a hero use his feat while being Dark Charmed?

to make it more clear I will take an example:

Player A is the OL player B is Red Scorpion

Feat : "Use when you are attacked to ferce the attacking monster to reroll some or all of the attack dice (you choose which dice). The new results must be applied."

 

A uses Dark Charm on Red Scorpion

Can B use his feat to make A (OL) re-roll his dices?

 

Best Regards

 

Felin


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#2 griton

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 11:18 AM

I believe you are correct on both counts. (Bogran would get the +1 bonus if another hero is adjacent, and Red Scorpion could force a reroll).



#3 Felin

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 08:01 PM

Hello

The first one seems logical!

But are you sure about the second?
Because the hero is under control of the OL.
And if he can use a feat what about using a capacity or skill? As he has no limitation regarding cards exhaustion nor fatigue...

By the way thank you for your answers!

Best Regards

Felin

#4 Krawallburste

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 08:12 PM

#1 has been clarified. as long as you perform the attack with the hero permitted with dark charm, the hero counts to your monsters. so you can play overlord cards on him that have the triggering condition "when a monster performs an attack action" like critical blow etc. 

although im not sure, whether his heroic feat changes with him.

 

i'd rather say, that bogran gains - when adjacent to another hero +1 against himself, but NOT against another hero.

 

#2 id rather say no. you dont get control over the player, you get him to perform an attack. every other conditions are not under your concern. you cannot drink a powerpotion if you miss, you cannot make him suffer fatigue, and i'd say you cannot force him to use heroic feats. u get an attack. flat.



#5 Steve-O

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 08:27 PM

I believe FFG has said that "always on" effects that apply to a hero's attacks will also apply to attacks made using DC by the OL.  Bogran's ability is one such example.

 

However, any effect that needs to be activated to be used (with or without cost) may only be used at the hero player's discretion.  In other words, the OL is control of the attack, but the hero is in control of everything else at his disposal.

 

So yes, Red Scorpion's player could use her ability to force the OL to re-roll.  The OL himself could not use Red Scorpion's ability to re-roll.

 

Check the FAQs in case I'm wrong, but I believe that's what they said.


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#6 griton

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 10:26 AM

i'd rather say, that bogran gains - when adjacent to another hero +1 against himself, but NOT against another hero.

Correct. Bogran's ability says "Each time you attack a MONSTER adjacent to another hero", and Dark Charm says "as if he were one of your monsters". So if he attacked another hero, that hero isn't considered a monster. But attacking himself, he is considered a monster adjacent to another hero.

 

So yes, Red Scorpion's player could use her ability to force the OL to re-roll.  The OL himself could not use Red Scorpion's ability to re-roll.

Yup. FFG Has clarified that heroes are still "heroic at heart". This was specifically in reference to Leoric's ability, but I imagine the same would apply to Red Scorpion's.



#7 Felin

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 09:28 PM

Thank you all for the answers

 

So point 1 seems to be clear and it's a yes.

 

About point 2

@Krawallburste : of course the OL can't use the feat.. but can the hero himself, this was my question?

 

@Steve-O : are you sure? is this the official answer?

about the FAQ I have looked twice and the only mention about dark charm / dark host is that :

Q: When a hero is under the effects of “Dark Host,” is he treated as a monsterfor the entire overlord turn?
A: No. That hero is treated as a monster only when the overlord chooses to perform the move and attack action with that hero. Before and after those actions, the hero is still treated as a hero.
 
Q: If a hero is under the effects of “Dark Host,” can the overlord play “Dash” or “Frenzy” on him?”
A: No. “Dash” and “Frenzy” are played when the overlord is activating a monster. Though the overlord receives a move and attack action with the hero affected by “Dark Host,” it is not considered to be an activation

 

Nothing more and they say : "Before and after those actions, the hero is still treated as a hero."

I understand that while treated as a monster the hero can not make actions / activations of power, abilities and so on....

But the hero can use them after like with Lysse and OneHand

 

@griton : I suppose you refer to this

Q : When Leoric is affected by Dark Charm, are his own attacks reduced by one heart, due to his heroe's ability (in other words, as a hero is considered as a monster, does he loose all his heroic abilities, including the 'passive' ones) ?

A : Yes, since he is treated as a monster, any attack he performs would have its damage reduced by 1. A hero is treated as a monster but is still, deep down, heroic at heart =)

 

The "heroic at heart" I see it as a response to the possibility to loose the ability or like some have asked in the same thread to reverse it -1[Heart] to heroes when Leoric is charmed.

But from my point of view there is a difference between Red Scorpion and Leoric

   Leoric ability is a permanent/passive one, the hero has nothing to do to activate his abity

   Whereas for Red Scorption we are talking about activating a feat

 

 

 

I asked about activating the feat because it's the more obvious and the example is simple but if the hero can do this why not think he can activate other things / powers (even with exhaustion or fatigue.. after all he has not the OL limitations)

For example the Champion ability "For the cause" or the WildLander "Running shot" (if the OL attackes with a bow, the hero will be able, before the attack, to move the hero!! if he was attacking another hero is the attack cancelled? can the OL choose another taget .. like himself? ..)

 

I know these are situations that will nearly never happen... but if ever their happen... I want to be prepared ;-)

 

Best Regards

 

Helder


Edited by Felin, 30 January 2014 - 09:29 PM.


#8 griton

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:12 AM

I asked about activating the feat because it's the more obvious and the example is simple but if the hero can do this why not think he can activate other things / powers (even with exhaustion or fatigue.. after all he has not the OL limitations)

For example the Champion ability "For the cause" or the WildLander "Running shot" (if the OL attackes with a bow, the hero will be able, before the attack, to move the hero!! if he was attacking another hero is the attack cancelled? can the OL choose another taget .. like himself? ..)

Good points.

 

Probably best to ask FFG directly (about Red Scorpion, For the Cause, and Running Shot). See the Rules Questions link at the bottom of any page.



#9 Steve-O

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 08:42 PM

@Steve-O : are you sure? is this the official answer?
about the FAQ I have looked twice and the only mention about dark charm / dark host is that :


I'm not 100% sure, but I'm fairly sure.

Also check the "unofficial FAQ" on BGG's page for the game. There are a lot more clarifications there. If you really want a solid answer, you can also ask FFG yourself.

#10 Felin

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 03:12 AM

Steve-O, griton,

Thanks for your answers and advice!

Here is the questions I have send :
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Can a hero use his feat (or anything else power/ability) while being Dark Charmed?
to make it more clear I will take an example:

Player A is the OL player B is Red Scorpion

Feat : "Use when you are attacked to ferce the attacking monster to reroll some or all of the attack dice (you choose which dice). The new results must be applied."

- A uses Dark Charm on Red Scorpion
- Can B use his feat to make A (OL) re-roll his dices?


If so, I suppose Champion ability "For the cause" or the WildLander "Running shot" can also be used ?
For this last case what will happen : if the OL attackes with a bow?
The hero will be able, before the attack, to move the hero!!
If OL was attacking another hero is the attack cancelled? can the OL choose another taget .. like the hero himself?
--------------------------------------------------------------------

an the answer :
--------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Justin Kemppainen

Yes, if Red Scorpion is forced to attack herself, she could use her feat. This also applies to "For the Cause."

It does not apply to Running Shot, however. The overlord cannot force a hero to use Class cards, and though his figure is performing the attack, the hero himself is not, so he cannot use Running Shot himself.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

In short yes the heros can keep on reacting and using their power / abilities (if triggering conditions are met, of course) while being Dark Charmed!

 

Again Thanks all (this includes Justin ! ) for the help!

 

Best Regards

 

Felin


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