Jump to content



Photo

Swift Assault question


  • Please log in to reply
6 replies to this topic

#1 holymauler

holymauler

    Member

  • Members
  • 6 posts

Posted 28 January 2014 - 01:16 PM

So a White Scars Assault Marine under the effects of "Swift Assault" (First Founding page 32) wields a "Power Lance" (First Founding page 99).  Swift Assault says that I can get a free half action per turn as long as one of my actions has the sub-type "Movement" (excluding Dodge).  The Power Lance says I can hit people 2m away and don't count as engaged in melee unless my opponent can hit me back.  

 

Is he able to use the "Charge" Full action and not engage himself in melee?

 

If he can "Charge" and not engage himself, can he then use the "Move" action to get double his Agility in meters with jump pack (or 10m space marine bike) away from said enemy?

 

I haven't come across anything in my perusing of books that actually states it's melee range... Does this mean I can pull the above trick on something really big like a Mawlock because you have to be "adjacent" to an enemy to be "engaged in melee"?

 

 



#2 Kshatriya

Kshatriya

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,686 posts

Posted 28 January 2014 - 01:54 PM

Is he able to use the "Charge" Full action and not engage himself in melee?

 

If he can "Charge" and not engage himself, can he then use the "Move" action to get double his Agility in meters with jump pack (or 10m space marine bike) away from said enemy?

 

I haven't come across anything in my perusing of books that actually states it's melee range... Does this mean I can pull the above trick on something really big like a Mawlock because you have to be "adjacent" to an enemy to be "engaged in melee"?

1. I'd say yes. That seems to be the intent. 

2. If you're planning on going right by, you might be engaged and provoke an AoO if you're just driving by and get too close. It would depend on your vectors.

3. Maybe, but consider with their size, melee range might be interpreted differently by the GM.



#3 holymauler

holymauler

    Member

  • Members
  • 6 posts

Posted 28 January 2014 - 02:11 PM

As far as going right by the guy, I was thinking of specifically the jump pack guy charging foreward, melee attack, then Swift Assault my way back the direction I came.  This lets my friendly neighborhood devestator light him up the following turn and keeps me from getting my ass bone(sword)ed in return as most "normal" things couldn't catch me at that speed.  Perfectly fits the intent of White Scars!  Only downside is I can't Swift Attack or Lightning Attack with a charge, seems balanced because I can't get hit back with this skirmish style.

 

There is a talent for White Scars that lets you 180 with your bike instead of 90 degree turns.  So you could theoretically charge up to an enemy, hockey stop 2m away, swing the lance, then burn rubber back the direction you came with your "free" move.  Makes a nice picture in my head :)


  • Kshatriya and pearldrum1 like this

#4 Kshatriya

Kshatriya

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,686 posts

Posted 28 January 2014 - 02:27 PM

That sounds fine. Also I'm not sure how much space you need to make the turn, but it seems like it works.



#5 herichimo

herichimo

    Member

  • Members
  • 892 posts

Posted 28 January 2014 - 04:51 PM

So a White Scars Assault Marine under the effects of "Swift Assault" (First Founding page 32) wields a "Power Lance" (First Founding page 99).  Swift Assault says that I can get a free half action per turn as long as one of my actions has the sub-type "Movement" (excluding Dodge).  The Power Lance says I can hit people 2m away and don't count as engaged in melee unless my opponent can hit me back.  

 

Is he able to use the "Charge" Full action and not engage himself in melee?

 

If he can "Charge" and not engage himself, can he then use the "Move" action to get double his Agility in meters with jump pack (or 10m space marine bike) away from said enemy?

 

I haven't come across anything in my perusing of books that actually states it's melee range... Does this mean I can pull the above trick on something really big like a Mawlock because you have to be "adjacent" to an enemy to be "engaged in melee"?

 

Yes, the character can make a Charge action and still gain an additional half action as a result of Swift Assault.

 

The description of the power lance does not give you any special abilities you would not have with any other melee weapon with 'reach'.

Firstly, you MUST engage a target to attack him in melee (Core p. 244), even with a power lance, but this does not mean the other guy must be capable of engaging you. Certain large creatures (bio titans, mawlocs, and defilers for instance) are sufficiently large enough it can be assumed they can engage targets without allowing those targets to engage them (common sense rule).

Second, you DO NOT have to be attacked or hit by anything to be engaged. To engage a target in melee all you have to do is move close enough to be capable of attacking the target, and then simply choose to engage him.

Thirdly, when engaged (either engaging another, or being engaged) a character can ONLY use melee subtype actions.

 

  • Therefore a character with a lance can engage a target with the lance but be too far away to be engaged by the target. The target can Dodge the lance attack but since he is not engaging the attacker, may not use Counter Attack.
  • The attacker remains engaged with the target as long as he chooses to be engaged (since the target isn't engaging him).
  • If the target chooses to move away from the attacker without disengaging he would suffer a free strike, as long as the attacker continues to choose to engage the target.
  • If the attacker moves away from the target without disengaging nothing happens as the target is not engaging the attacker which means it cannot make a free strike against him.
  • As long as the attacker chooses to continue engaging the target, neither can use any attack action that does not have the melee subtype.
  • And, of course, the target can move towards the attacker and thus engage him with no penalty or free strikes.

As for your question, yes, your charge then half move example is perfectly legal. Though I would rule a Mawloc (being a big arse bug as it is) would have the 'reach' to engage you even with a power lance (that things arms are like 12 feet long at least, I mean come on). I'd let you get away with it against carnies and tyrants though.

 

Final thought: Jump packs only double your nomal move. A half-move is normally equal to your agility bonus in meters, but space marines in power armor are hulking, and hulking characters gain a +1 to their agility bonus for movement purposes.



#6 holymauler

holymauler

    Member

  • Members
  • 6 posts

Posted 29 January 2014 - 01:36 PM

Ahh the "fun" of non-grid based systems, I do abhore how much ambiquity there is sometimes in the rules.  Still not as bad as GWs!  Thanks for the indepth justification, I doubt the GM will be that butt hurt to dig this deep but it is nice to know!

 

Totally missed the clarification on jump pack for only normal moves you are right.



#7 Kshatriya

Kshatriya

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,686 posts

Posted 29 January 2014 - 03:24 PM

You can very easily use a grid with this system. It just isn't a default.


  • pearldrum1 likes this




© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS