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Genestealer and Enslaver questions


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#1 Cavgunner

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 01:14 PM

Hello! I've been trying to find some specific information about what actually happens to the "host" that is dominated by each one of these creatures, and the exact details seem to be lacking.

Genestealers- ok, so a Genestealer is capable of using an ovipositor to infect/impregnate the host with its own DNA, which results in the host being implanted with a parasitic Genestealer hybrid that the host is psychically compelled to care for, and eventually "gives birth" to, for lack of a better term. Is that correct? If so, how exactly does this "birth" take place? Does the ovipositor have to strike a specific place on the host? Where exactly on the host does the parasitic hybrid develop? How, exactly, does it emerge? More importantly what happens to the host?

Enslavers- It seems to be stated that a psyker "infected" by an Enslaver will undergo startling physical changes until they eventually become a host for an active warp portal that other Enslavers can emerge through. So, I'm having some trouble imagining how exactly this would appear to an observer. Does the "portal" literally overlap with the victim's body in some kind of Phantom Zone kind of paradox? Where on the victim does the portal emerge? Does the victim survive this process and/or remain conscious once the portal has developed?

Any help is appreciated! I'm looking forward to treating my players to these horrific Xeno threats and I want to make sure that my information is correct.

Edited by Cavgunner, 23 January 2014 - 01:14 PM.


#2 venkelos

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 01:43 PM

Genestealers - I don't know; part of me remembered them OVERWRITING your DNA, and you BECOMING the Genestealer Hybrid, but that could as easily be made up this moment, I'd have to look it up.

 

Enslavers - over time, your body horrifically changes, until you BECOME a huge arch-shape. You become a tube of flesh that eventually folds over, forms a second anchor point on the ground, and the space between your "arms" (that's all you are, now) fills with the psychic energy of your soul, making a portal; there's nothing remotely human, or human-looking left of you. By that time, thankfully, you are "dead", and possibly not feeling anything, but your Psyker-soul will keep the portal lit, and other Enslavers streaming through.



#3 WeedyGrot

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 02:42 PM

With regard to the Genestealers I tend to go the older way which has since been retconned if I recall correctly. The older way is that the host will only give birth to a genestealer hybrid if they are able to naturally give birth. So that means a woman 'infected' will find all of her future children will be hybrids and a man 'infected' will find all children he fathers are hybrids regardless of who he fathers them with. In both cases the infected parent will accept this as normal and will want to protect the offspring. I also rule that those infected suffer from increased fertility and libido however if the being infected was a chem geld well then the Genestealers are just out of luck.

 

The ovipositor for the Genestealer is in it's mouth and it must hit the target in the mouth to implant the seed. That is why the Genestealer's 'attack' is called a kiss. Genestealers use a combination of hypnotic vision and just brute force to hold the person in place for the kiss. Often they will have no memory of the encounter.

 

This thread has some good information: http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/81097-genestealer-cult-game-idea/

 

And this thread has some of the best rules for hybrids I have seen in a long time http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/93575-rules-for-genestealer-hybrids/

 

As for Enslavers venkelos has it correct as far as I am aware. In a game I have run in the past the players found a long dead Enslaver portal that was just bones warped in such a way that they had become a giant ring. They then discovered that those with psychic potential could use said ring as a warp gate. So far they're just looking at it as a fantastic gift and no-one has thought very hard about the consequences.

 


Edited by WeedyGrot, 23 January 2014 - 02:50 PM.

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#4 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 02:47 AM

Correct. The ovipositor doesn't turn you into a hybrid, nor does a hybrid hatch out of you. Instead your offspring will be hybrids, which you, as doting mind-controlled parent, will seek to protect and help take over your society.

 

 

Enslaver portal...err..no. It's a messy "turned inside out into a half-living, half screaming pile of flesh" type afair.



#5 Routa-maa

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 03:23 AM

Like many has already posted, you don't give birth to Genestealer hybrid a la "Alien" style. Men or Women implanted with Genestealer geneseed just have their children turning into hybrids.

 

And for the Genestealer kiss, it doesn't have to be kiss to mouth but the tongues tip is hard enough to penetrate flesh.

Ovipositor.jpg

 

As for the Enslaver turning Psyker infected by it to living warpgate, In one comic book has best kind of image you could get for this living warpgate, couldn't find the picture. Just pile of viscera and bones arranged into annulus standing vertical.


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#6 WeedyGrot

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 05:37 PM

Aha I found a picture of the Enslaver's warp portal. Given the grimdark nature of 40K I'd assume the portal is still alive while it is in use but isn't very happy.

 

warp_portal.jpg


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#7 Fortinbras

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 08:06 PM

 

 

And for the Genestealer kiss, it doesn't have to be kiss to mouth but the tongues tip is hard enough to penetrate flesh.

 

 

Perhaps not, but all the book material describes it that way.



#8 Routa-maa

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 11:22 AM

Not in the books I have read but we all know how consistency WH40K fluff is.


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#9 Alasseo

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 04:59 PM

 

 

 

And for the Genestealer kiss, it doesn't have to be kiss to mouth but the tongues tip is hard enough to penetrate flesh.

 

 

Perhaps not, but all the book material describes it that way.

 

Really? Check "Xenology", or for that matter, any of the Ciaphas Cain novels that feature 'stealers. The entry wound containing the implant on those corpses/freshly kissed cultists is described as upper torso, near the top end of the ribcage.

This coincides with the original material on genestealers, back in Space Hulk (and their introduction to mainstream 40k in late 1st/early 2nd ed).

Even those books I am aware of that only use the term "Kiss" refer to it as an "obscene parody" thereof- while I imagine that the mouth and throat are preferred targets (less bone in the way), they are hardly the only possible targets (note the suber-hard bone/chitin spur on the tip: that thing is not merely hard enough to pierce flesh, but some bone as well).

 

Some of the early art also showed them with a significantly less strongly tapering muscular tongue with a small mouth at the tip; the moving of the design away from something xenomorph-esque and towards the pointed tongue shown above is presumably a result of GWs legal department not always being all-powerful and not wishing to be sued by the holders of the Alien license. Sometimes I think everyone except possibly Giger is thankful for this.


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#10 Fortinbras

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 06:50 PM

 

Really? Check "Xenology", or for that matter, any of the Ciaphas Cain novels that feature 'stealers. The entry wound containing the implant on those corpses/freshly kissed cultists is described as upper torso, near the top end of the ribcage.

 

This coincides with the original material on genestealers, back in Space Hulk (and their introduction to mainstream 40k in late 1st/early 2nd ed).

 

 

I haven't played space Hulk on the PC in about...20 years, but if I recall correctly the material that came with it did describe the ovipositor as implanting it in the back of the throat area.  Something about it being hard to extract with that placement.

 

Black Library fiction is a dime a dozen and I take it with a truckload of salt.  I love Ciaphas Cain, but if Ciaphas Cain is canon, so is anything written by C.S. Goto.  

 

Also, "top end of the ribcage" sounds a lot like trachea, which would be the same general area of implantation as if you just went in through the mouth.  So I think we both agree that you can't simply implant it in someone's ankle and have it work properly.


Edited by Fortinbras, 25 January 2014 - 06:52 PM.


#11 Nameless2all

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 11:50 PM

From reading various source books I also had the image of it being a "Kiss" (and women giving birth to hybrids until finally the Magus emerges to lead the cult and call the fleet).  Heck, I remember in one White Dwarf Magazine or a Codex it showed the Genestealer holding a human's face, and the tongue going toward the humans mouth.  Of course, this was also about 15 years ago or thereabouts, so some fluff probably has changed. Sad really, I liked that fluff. 


Edited by Nameless2all, 25 January 2014 - 11:51 PM.

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#12 Magnus Grendel

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 04:22 AM

The Deathwatch graphic novel also has the gene-pack implanted into the chest, as does the Word Bearers series.



#13 Roy Stone

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 05:42 AM

Deathwatch: Ark of Lost Souls has both Genestealer and Enslaver rules, as well as better rules for the Psychneuein.

 

Though I can't remember where, it could be in that book, but there are rules for surgically removing Genestealer's gene-seed. But this only applies to normal people who are first infected.

 

Whether freed from Genestealer or Enslaver control, both result in some insanity for the victim.

 

Hybrids are a different matter altogether.



#14 Kshatriya

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 07:37 PM

 

Whether freed from Genestealer or Enslaver control, both result in some insanity for the victim.

 

AND Corruption!

 

I don't allow casual reversal of the kiss. My DW team has put an important person in cryo-stasis to take them to a medical facility and try and reverse it, though. It's certainly beyond 99% of infectees.



#15 Roy Stone

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 09:22 AM

 

 

Whether freed from Genestealer or Enslaver control, both result in some insanity for the victim.

 

AND Corruption!

 

I don't allow casual reversal of the kiss. My DW team has put an important person in cryo-stasis to take them to a medical facility and try and reverse it, though. It's certainly beyond 99% of infectees.

 

 

Deathwatch: Ark of Lost Souls Appendix Page 132 under Genestealer KissSpecial treatments known to the Deathwatch and the robust physiology of the Adeptus Astartes ensure that Deathwatch Space Marines are immune to this effect and automatically pass any Toughness Test to resist being so infected.

 

Sadly no rules for surgical removal so I guess I was wrong about that.

 

Deathwatch: Ark of Lost Souls Appendix Page 138: under Enslavement: Any creature who was under the Enslaver's control and is suddenly freed from it is Stunned for 1 round as they recover their wits, and gains 1d10 Insanity Points from the experience.

 

Notice that Corruption is at no time mentioned. But don't take my word for it, check out the rules in your own book. If there's been a reprint then I may yet be proved wrong.



#16 Routa-maa

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 10:31 AM

From Emperor Protecs Auran strain Genestealer

 

"A Very Hard (–30) Medicae Test can remove the Genestealer’s taint, but doing so requires a week of care in an advanced medicae facility."


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#17 Roy Stone

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 10:59 AM

From Emperor Protecs Auran strain Genestealer

 

"A Very Hard (–30) Medicae Test can remove the Genestealer’s taint, but doing so requires a week of care in an advanced medicae facility."

 

Knew I heard it somewhere






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