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Cortex Implants; Common vs Good Query


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#1 Bloodpact

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 08:12 PM

Some of my fellow players and I have a question concerning a bit of unclear wording in the Cortex Implants description (149, Rogue Trader); do Good-Craftsmanship implants suffer the same -1d10 to Ballistic Skill, Weapon Skill, Agility, Fellowship and Intelligence that Common-Craftsmanship examples do? If so, since both Common and Good-Craftsmanship versions note that recipients take 1d10 Insanity Points, would these stack as well?


Edited by Bloodpact, 21 January 2014 - 09:27 PM.


#2 Erathia

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 11:23 PM

This is an interesting question. I ruled that it wasn't for my campaign because the Good Quality ones say they grant 1d10 Insanity, not 1d10 additional Insanity, so I felt they probably overrode the penalties from the normal cortex implant.

 

I sort of wish that this wasn't the case because it made my Rogue Trader relentless in attempting to acquire this for all the PCs and his troops because he was going to employ a bunch of computer-assisted geniuses.


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#3 Amazing Larry

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 04:04 AM

Well with the rarity and the description in order to get this augment in either good or best quality you either have to be Scrooge Mcduck rich even by RT standards or have some kind of very friendly relationship with the Mechanicus. I've noticed a pattern I like emerging with my players and the Mechanicus, in that whenever they have something members of the machine cult would really want they tend to start bartering for specific items/components/weapons/gear rather than accept cash.

 

It makes alot of sense, why trade a cargo hold full of rare ore to a forge world for money when you can trade it for something only the forge world has? You can get profit factor anywhere, make 'em pay you in tanks and jetpacks.



#4 Mordechai Von Razgriz

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 12:59 PM

Well with the rarity and the description in order to get this augment in either good or best quality you either have to be Scrooge Mcduck rich even by RT standards or have some kind of very friendly relationship with the Mechanicus. I've noticed a pattern I like emerging with my players and the Mechanicus, in that whenever they have something members of the machine cult would really want they tend to start bartering for specific items/components/weapons/gear rather than accept cash.

 

It makes alot of sense, why trade a cargo hold full of rare ore to a forge world for money when you can trade it for something only the forge world has? You can get profit factor anywhere, make 'em pay you in tanks and jetpacks.

It would be true if Profit Factor was a tremendous amount of cash. But it can represents the favors of an Imperial Governor as well as the benefits from trade routes, assets, factories, shares or even fealty vows.... So yes, getting a discount on military hardware supplies from Forgeworld X can be represented too in a +Y Profit Factor format, not only the form of nice goodies.

 

And concerning the Mechanicus, it's not like their are themselves so much concerned with cash. Bartering with them is an approach that fit both parties.


Cum historia mutat valde, Razgriz revelat ipsum; Primum Monstrum scelestus est.
Cum potentia sua Monstrum fondet mortem in terram, Deinde moritur.
Cum somnus finit, Razgriz surget iterum, Magnus heros est.

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#5 Amazing Larry

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 02:45 AM

What I'm saying is that even when profit factor is high you still have to roll, and if you're an impoverished dynasty why sell for profit factor that will only make you slightly less impoverished. If you've got some archeotech gizmo or crates of rare ores in your holds that the Mechanicus wants then trade outright for the things you actually want and avoid having to make rolls you might still fail.


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#6 Bloodpact

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 03:51 PM

Uh, guys, if I may, I think you may have misunderstood my question. While yes, I imagine its difficult in any case to get superior-quality Cortex Implants, my query doesn't really have anything to do with the goods' obtainability.

 

  My question concerned whether the negative Characteristic and Insanity effects of Common and Superior-quality Cortex Implants stack or if the effects of Common and Good quality versions of such systems are independent of each other in this particular case. In rules terms, this comes down to Good Quality Implants == (-AG, -BS, -WS, -FEL, -INT, +2x SAN, Unnatural[INT]x2) or Good Quality Implants == (+1x SAN, Unnatural[Int]x2).



#7 Erathia

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 07:27 PM

Uh, guys, if I may, I think you may have misunderstood my question. While yes, I imagine its difficult in any case to get superior-quality Cortex Implants, my query doesn't really have anything to do with the goods' obtainability.

 

  My question concerned whether the negative Characteristic and Insanity effects of Common and Superior-quality Cortex Implants stack or if the effects of Common and Good quality versions of such systems are independent of each other in this particular case. In rules terms, this comes down to Good Quality Implants == (-AG, -BS, -WS, -FEL, -INT, +2x SAN, Unnatural[INT]x2) or Good Quality Implants == (+1x SAN, Unnatural[Int]x2).

 

I gave my interpretation of this in my answer. I would say it is the latter, although as a GM that makes my eye twitch uncontrollably.


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Citizens of Grace! We have defeated both the Dark Eldar and Ork menaces that threatened your system! We need no thanks nor payments, so long as you do not leave the atmosphere during our salvage operations under pain of death! - Jequin Hos of The Hos Dynasty


#8 Amazing Larry

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 03:54 AM

Yeah as far as it's written I'd say good craftsmanship means the only penalty is the 1d10 insanity, it doesn't really suggest what best craftsmanship would entail so I'd probably just rule that it brings the insanity roll down to 1d5. You get into how the thing works and it's basically a distinction between a unit that allows a lobotomized or retarded person to be a half decent slave, and a unit that puts a wikipedia's worth of instantly available information and all your existing tech specs on call for your conscious mind without impairing your cognative faculties.

 

I think the insanity represents a sort of existential crises at coming to terms with the expanded conciousness that comes from just knowing half of all human knowledge in a really inorganic way.


Edited by Amazing Larry, 10 February 2014 - 03:56 AM.

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#9 SirFrog

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 07:57 AM

As far as the rules go, unless Best Quality has some specific rules associated with it in the item entry, it does nothing except work extra well (fluff-wise) and look pretty. So maybe the integration and interface of the knowledge is better designed, maybe it comes with fake flesh to replace what might have been removed to make place for the circuitry, or maybe it's just packed full of poetry (or porn, knowing Rogue Traders).


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#10 Erathia

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 01:11 PM

As far as the rules go, unless Best Quality has some specific rules associated with it in the item entry, it does nothing except work extra well (fluff-wise) and look pretty. So maybe the integration and interface of the knowledge is better designed, maybe it comes with fake flesh to replace what might have been removed to make place for the circuitry, or maybe it's just packed full of poetry (or porn, knowing Rogue Traders).

 

Best-Quality Cortex Implants do not make an audible whirring noise when their owner is confronted with a logical paradox.


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Citizens of Grace! We have defeated both the Dark Eldar and Ork menaces that threatened your system! We need no thanks nor payments, so long as you do not leave the atmosphere during our salvage operations under pain of death! - Jequin Hos of The Hos Dynasty


#11 Amazing Larry

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 02:50 AM

I think you should get something tangible for Best Quality, like maybe you get either the Logic or Literacy skill or an advancement to one of them without having to pay the xp cost.



#12 Erathia

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Posted 11 February 2014 - 09:36 AM

I think you should get something tangible for Best Quality, like maybe you get either the Logic or Literacy skill or an advancement to one of them without having to pay the xp cost.

 

That is a discussion between you and your GM, however in general apart from style, sometimes there is no improvement from Good to Best Quality, other than the style it would afford. However, you do get something tangible for Best Quality Cortex Implants - you get to meet one of the requirements for the Augmeticist career.


Citizens of Grace! We have defeated both the Dark Eldar and Ork menaces that threatened your system! We need no thanks nor payments, so long as you do not leave the atmosphere during our salvage operations under pain of death! - Jequin Hos of The Hos Dynasty


#13 Wincent

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 03:32 AM

 

I think you should get something tangible for Best Quality, like maybe you get either the Logic or Literacy skill or an advancement to one of them without having to pay the xp cost.

 

That is a discussion between you and your GM, however in general apart from style, sometimes there is no improvement from Good to Best Quality, other than the style it would afford. However, you do get something tangible for Best Quality Cortex Implants - you get to meet one of the requirements for the Augmeticist career.

 

 

And also to get GM permission for a peer/good reputation (AdMech) elite advance.



#14 Amazing Larry

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 03:34 AM

I don't really have a character I want it for, I am GMing for someone who does though and if it comes up that's probably what I'll tell him is that Best Craftsmanship gets him the Literacy and Logic skills but incurs an additional 1d5 of insanity.






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