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WFRP 4e - how should it look?


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#141 Keeop

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 12:24 PM

Why this applies to WFRP and not he 40K stuff I do not know, but I do not think we will see FFG doing the WFRP equivalent of SW Suns of Fortune (Corellian supplement) anytime in the future. It may be that WFRP is just too much trouble now and we will not see anything at all for the forseeable future or at least nothing with any substance, which a lot of us would like to see.

 

Suns of Fortune is a fantastic supplement. If that's an indication of what FFG can kick out when given the opportunity to do so I can only speculate that GW must have held things really tight and in check throughout all 3 editions of this rpg. Black Fire Pass was a step in the right direction but just imagine how rich the world would be if the same brush strokes were applied. GW is a frustrating thing to love. It's as if they don't want my money.


Edited by Keeop, 13 February 2014 - 01:01 PM.


#142 ragnar63

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 04:32 PM

Parts of Black Fire Pass would have been better but FFG caught a cold.



#143 Beren Eoath

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 02:01 AM

When I first got 3e I was very excited and hoped that FFG will do for this edition that what BL did for 2e - expand the Old World. And now we  are here when we all know that GW tied there hands and wants total control over every supplement and every game that is based on there licence. This is a sick situation.

Suns of Fortune is great example what FFG can do with a licnce and how they can create amazing content when they have the opportunity to do so and the licence owner does not block them.

I think that's how it should work - when you get the licence you should stay with the setting and it's feeling but also have a chance to expand it, make it bigger, better and give it a deeper look.

I can only hope that something like this will happen to WFRP,

Cheers



#144 ragnar63

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 03:02 AM

 

 GW is a frustrating thing to love. It's as if they don't want my money.

.

 

 

 

They don't particularly. They proved that with 2nd edition. When things got tough for them, they decided that WFRP was not making enough of a profit and so sold the license on to FFG. Roleplayers do not figure in their thinking. That is why they make sure nothing that FFG do could conflict with any future Warhammer Army books. Where 40K has the advantage is that they are dealing with a universe out there not just one small part of one world. There is far more scope for innovation.


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#145 Beren Eoath

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 05:08 AM

 

They don't particularly. They proved that with 2nd edition. When things got tough for them, they decided that WFRP was not making enough of a profit and so sold the license on to FFG. Roleplayers do not figure in their thinking. That is why they make sure nothing that FFG do could conflict with any future Warhammer Army books. Where 40K has the advantage is that they are dealing with a universe out there not just one small part of one world. There is far more scope for innovation.

 

 

Love that irrational thinkinmg of someone at GW. - "Let FFG publish some extra expansions fo that Warhammer Fantasy would be more popular so we would make more money! Hmm. no wait we can not becouse when we are going to make a dwarf rulebook in 10 years from now then that what they could create will be in conflict with that what we could make."

 

The GW IP policy is so abstract and ,sorry for the hard words but, stupid that it does not even fit in the irractional. They could make more money but they refuse becouse it could be in conflict in the future with that what they could create (not even created now).



#146 Twodogz

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 05:26 AM

GW created an amazing IP, then threw it out the window and butchered it to suit a PvP tabletop game.

 

The RPG side of the business doesn't even get a consideration, they've been outsourcing it since WFRP1.

 

I am at the point where, as an RPer, they have taken their IP into a completely different direction over the last (almost) 30 years that I've pretty much given up on them.  For me it's all the "artillery" steampunk elements like gyrocopters and steamtanks that kill it.  Also the Storm of Chaos was an absolute joke on all accounts.

 

Shadows over Esteren is a viable shift I am thinking for a similar game/setting.  I have even toyed with moving to Vampire Dark Ages, WoD Storyteller system.

 

Nothing else really ticks the "similar to earth, multiple humanoid races, gritty dark fantasy" yet, but when something else does show up like this (ie Zweihander) I will be out of here lie there's no tomorrow, and GW can stick it.  For good.


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#147 Beren Eoath

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 07:01 AM

Yes, your not the only one that is thinking about changing the system.

Maybe FFG would do a different Fantasy RPG - maybe the long awaited and many times mentioned by fans Terrinoth RPG.

Then I could use it and set my adventures in the Old World.

If thing go this - GW will still be blocking WFRP and FFg will not publish nothing for it - I will go to a different setting and mechanics. Maybe I will play more SW or will try to complete WFRP 2e to have fun. Who knows.

I rememeber WFRP 1e, that was a blast, free world and that great feeling with a lot of dark humor. Yes, those where the times.

And GW is not learning from there mistakes - closing WFRP line, keep RPG fans tight to WFB - don,t know why? and not giving publishers more free space to create great games. Great gams means more slod and that leads to more money.

GW did some siriuos mistakes like that one with Storm of Chaso and Archaon.

Maybe the time is comming to say good bye to Warhammer Fantasy or play it using different mechanics - no official ones that GW could lay there hands on it.

Cheers

 

PS. Is it just my imagination or every fan of WFRP does not like GW for what it does to WFRP setting?


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#148 Twodogz

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 10:31 AM

Yes, your not the only one that is thinking about changing the system.

Maybe FFG would do a different Fantasy RPG - maybe the long awaited and many times mentioned by fans Terrinoth RPG.

Then I could use it and set my adventures in the Old World.

If thing go this - GW will still be blocking WFRP and FFg will not publish nothing for it - I will go to a different setting and mechanics. Maybe I will play more SW or will try to complete WFRP 2e to have fun. Who knows.

I rememeber WFRP 1e, that was a blast, free world and that great feeling with a lot of dark humor. Yes, those where the times.

And GW is not learning from there mistakes - closing WFRP line, keep RPG fans tight to WFB - don,t know why? and not giving publishers more free space to create great games. Great gams means more slod and that leads to more money.

GW did some siriuos mistakes like that one with Storm of Chaso and Archaon.

Maybe the time is comming to say good bye to Warhammer Fantasy or play it using different mechanics - no official ones that GW could lay there hands on it.

Cheers

 

PS. Is it just my imagination or every fan of WFRP does not like GW for what it does to WFRP setting?

 

Yeah all good points.  I think mechanics wise, 2nd Ed and 3rd Ed are pretty decent, but in need of fine tuning or house rule heavy.  They're both far from perfect though.

 

I loved 1st Ed, perhaps mostly because initially it didn't have all those extra lore supplements it felt more free to me.  It was, effectively, lore lite.  Everything was in that one book initially, even town and settlement templates.  You had to go fishing through WFB books if you wanted extra lore.

 

Get 3 players in a group, one from each edition of the game and you have so much potential for players blocking setting feel because of the lore and setting changes made since 86 due to WFB.  I've really had to spell out setting differences quite clearly.

 

It's not their core business so GW doesn't care about WFRP.  They get paid by whoever uses their IP regardless - (I'd love to know if this is a fixed fee or if it's % based).  Their main income is from PC games and mini's etc.

 

I haven't met a WFRP or WFB player that played 1st Ed and liked SoC changes.  The WFRP guys (1st Ed anyway) hate the forced change of setting and move towards a broken land (shifting the setting away from intrigue) and the WFB guys hated that it was all scripted even though Chaos got their butts handed to them.

 

What I think makes WFRP great.

 

Setting:

* geography is modelled off our real world so easy to relate to (ie Tilea / Italy)

* low fantasy so it feels a lot more real and gritty

* magic is rare ie few magic (more likely cursed) items or casters

* it includes only a few core playable meta races (not hundreds like other systems)

* black powder / renaissance instead of dark ages adds a bit of spice

 

Mechanics:

* death isn't just 0HP and a Constitution check

* severe critical wounds

* mutations

* disease

* insanity

* career system instead of class

* at higher levels players get better at what they do, but they stay vulnerable (not invincible like other systems)

* mechanics aren't tied to a battle grid and leave room for more narrative combat

 

I think this is what will make Zweihander great - it looks as though they'll cover these mechanical elements but will leave a lot of room free for GM's to tailor the setting.  I think they're negotiating with the Dark Albion guys.

 

Oh and yes, most people that understand how much GW have gouged it's loyal fans hate them but love the setting lol.

 

Often I feel like I have to do so much research/homework spread across all editions of the books to double check lore accuracy that I do feel it bogs the setting down, not improves it tbh - I don't think many will agree with me here though.

 

EDIT: 3rd Ed felt broader, less hyper detailed and specific with the lore ie Wizard apprenticeship specifics not being 50 pages like in 2nd Ed.  I liked the 3rd Ed simplifications, it left room for me to GM and created less homework.


Edited by Twodogz, 14 February 2014 - 11:12 AM.

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#149 Beren Eoath

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 12:24 PM

You catched what makes WFRP so special but GW is ruining that feeling. GW is destroying Warhammer Fantasy by slowly adding steampunk elements to it and with that total control over every project that uses that setting.

I was thinking what FFG could do if they would stay with the licence. And I can think of only one thing that could be made that would catch the feeling of WFRP, still use some of those mechanics from 3e and do not come in opposite with GW vision ( so they can't block it). For me the anwser would be Warhammer Quest but made from the start. FFG could use the action cards mechanic and special dice from WFRP 3e, mix it with there experience from Descent and Lord Of The Rings LCG and ad something more/ something new. Out of that mix they could create a card/board game with dice where players would take on the roles as heroes and go on adventures. In such a game you could play a troll Slayer or a bretonian knight and quest against chaos/orcs/skaven or other treat. Some adventures could be dungeon crawls while other more investigation type ones and all that played without the GM/Overlord just controled by the mechanics or cards. Maybe if they will still have the licence someone at FFG will create such a game but at this point it is a dream and on my wishlist.

If it comes to WFRP I see it future as much darker then the setting. GW will block every initiative to create some innovative titles for it and will keep a tied grip on the IP also on the Warhammer Fantasy vision that they have. When the first news about WFRP 3e come I thought it would be the holy graal of WFRP. One (3e) that will have and gather all the stuff that was created so far in one edition. So in one greatly published edition we would have a book about the Empire, Kislev, Bretonia, Chaos Wastes or even more. Even now it would be like a must have if FFG would publish a series of hardback books with materials from each edition in one place. If FFG would do something like that it would be an instant buy for me. But it all looks like it will only be a dream forever. As much as I would love to see WFRP becoming bigger and greater and assume it will not be so. FFG has the power, money and could do this becouse they have great designers also know how to do this this but GW will block them from all sides. This is a wasted potential.

 

Cheers


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#150 Twodogz

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 02:20 PM

Yeah I agree mate.

 

I'm looking forward to the elusive "completed" edition too.  It will never happen though.  Either GW pulls the license, the publisher goes broke before and closes the doors or they just give up on WFRP due to GW and their tight fists.

 

I totally agree, if it was ever going to happen it would happen under FFG.  FFG abandoning WFRP3 proves that there's not enough money in it after they pay GW their cut.

 

WFRP3 spread too many optional rules throughout too many supplements.  They should have stuck all the rules in one place and used supplements for lore and locations.


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#151 Beren Eoath

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 02:26 AM

I think many of players would love to see such a complete edition that would cover not only Empire but also other parts of the Old World.

And yes, a good way of publishing it would be to make a thick core rulebook (about 400-500 pages) in hardcover. In that one You would find all the information You need to play and have fun for many hours. It would cover mechanics, geography, races, base and advanced careers and of course a small bestiary. Then each expansion would expand the knowledge about some places, thing you can fin there and special careers to that place, all with a small adventure set in the described place. So on the session You would only need to have the core rulebook with dice and eventualy bestiary or supplement fiting Your adventure.

That would be a game of my dreams!

If FFG will do nothing about that then maybe it's time to start working on my own edition of WFRP with a lot of house rules.

 

Cheers

 

 

PS. When FFG got the licence then maybe they still have the rights for WFRP 2nd? If that's true then why wont they make a special edition of that game bounded in a series of thick hardcover books with all that was published for it. Nothing new they will have to create and still would got money from sales. This maybe would not fix the situation but would give some players a chance to get things that they missed.



#152 Beren Eoath

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 08:01 AM

I think FFG should do something to make more money out of WFRP.

When I remeber correctly FFG got the WFRP licence in 2007/2008 and they started by continueing the WFRP 2e line. They where asked about the future, the policy then was different, and fans got an anwser - we will contunue it. Then they published 2 expansions: Career Companion and Shades Of Empire. After that there was a long silience. Nothing was said, and even no rumours hit the community. Then they made a big sale on Christmas and 12 August 2009 they announced WFRP 3e. Why I'am bringing this back? Hmm I have a feeling that the same is happening now to WFRP 3e. For two years now FFG makes big sales on Christmas for WFRP 3e, and after The Enemy Within was published there is a silience. I do not count the few PODs, becouse FFG said that in those they are releasing only material that will never see day light in expansions. So after the sales and silience  what can come? Hmm, a new incarnation? That's just a thought but who knows.

 

A different thing I can imagine is that they could do something using the material they created so far. They could publish WFRP 3.5 based on upgraded rules for WFRP 3e Lite. So think of a mechanic that would completly allow playing with out tokens and cards. A mechanic that would change action cards and recharge into special manouvers that would cost fatigue/stress. Take all the published careers, talents and so on add a special created Character sheet (the one that would allow players to play from 1-5 Rank without the must of rewriting the character sheet for every career). An with all that in one place publish it as a 400/500 pages hardback book. A book that would gather all published so far materials from WFRP 3e in one place and even upgrade it. That would satisfy some fans and, if the plan WFRP 4e, made a base for a new edition.

 

Of course they could let the line die and publish games based on the WFRP licence without bothering about WFRP. They could even do a Warhammer Quest - a board/card game with dice.

 

Cheers and happy gaming (whatever you're playing now)



#153 ArthurB

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 04:57 AM

Read this topic, mulled over it, actually created an account to reply. Hello, everyone!

 

My take: I have severe doubts that we will see a 4th edition of WFRP.

 

As has been pointed out here, 3rd Edition ended up splitting the fanbase in a way which 2nd Edition simply didn't. I'm not going to engage in any edition warrior nonsense here because let's face it, we've all seen the arguments one way or another already and everyone's already made their minds up on this point, but I don't think anyone here is going to deny that a split has occurred. Maybe it goes one way in some local scenes and groups, maybe it goes a different way elsewhere - with only anecdotal evidence to go on it's hard to see the extent. But it's fairly clear that it's happened.

 

(As an aside: ICV2 sales statistics are interesting, but should be taken with a pinch of salt. They only compile those things from a few brick-and-mortar games shops - which have an increasingly small presence in the sales space compared to online mail order anyway - and even then only those shops who a) receive the ICV2 survey and b) bother to send it back. It is by no means clear whether or not this is a fair or representative sample. Additionally, there's been swathes of games over the years which have come out, shot to the upper regions of the ICV2 charts in the early phases of the product line, and then sink like a stone because there's few sales happening beyond the burst of early adopters.)

 

I think recent events with the DH2 beta playtest show that Fantasy Flight are very, very cautious these days about anything which might split the fanbase for one of their game lines. The fact that they completely retooled the beta because people loudly omplained that the original beta would destroy backward compatibility says it all. Indeed, I think it's partly that lack of backward compatibility that I think has driven the split in the WFRP fanbase: 2nd edition was, with a few patches here and there, a very complete game line, even more so if you took 1st edition stuff into account - and using 1st edition stuff with 2E really was a breeze, and for a lot of people - including me - it simply wasn't worth buying into a brand new system we couldn't use our old books with (at least, not without much more extensive restatting than would be required to use a 1E book with 2E) when we already had enough WFRP goodies to last us a lifetime.

 

Fantasy Flight seem to have come to the conclusion that it isn't worth radically retooling a game if in the course of doing so you end up splitting the fanbase (particularly when you are talking about Warhammer-based RPGs, which are more likely to attract the hardcore gamer crowd rather than attracting an expansive new demographic who haven't previously touched this sort of game). I don't actually blame them for this. A split fanbase leads at best to reduced sales, because half the people who'd otherwise be fans of your game aren't touching your new products because they're sticking with the old system; at worst, it leads to toxic relations within the game's community as edition warring runs rampant (just look at all the ill feeling generated by the D&D edition wars).

 

It's notable that the WFRP 3E style of presentation seems to have been inherited by the Star Wars games - being new games set in the Star Wars universe, those games aren't going to offend the existing fanbase (because even people fond of older Star Wars RPGs aren't seriously going to expect FFG to simply reprint WEG's or Wizards of the Coast's Star Wars stuff). Because FFG have a more or less clean slate to work with - because nobody has any preconceptions as to what a Star Wars RPG from FFG would look like - they're free to apply whatever system they like there. Conversely, the 40K RPGs which have emerged since WFRP 3 came out have incorporated none of its innovations, and with the clear fan demand that new editions of the games be backward compatible I don't see that they're ever likely to.

 

In short, I don't expect to see FFG ever applying radical top-to-bottom system changes to any of their existing RPG franchises in the foreseeable future, because of this reluctance to split the fanbase. As it stands, the WFRP fanbase is already split. And there's no good solution I can see for undoing that.

 

- If they go back to a 2E-style system, that'll enrage those who preferred 3E even though it'll excite the 2E/1E fans.

 

- If they put out a revised 3E, they won't win back any of the people who got off the bandwagon when 3E originally came out, and they might piss off the 3E fans anyway depending on how they do it. (How many of you want to buy brand new boxes, hm?)

 

- If they make a brand new system, they're more likely to end up with a 3-way split than they are to mend the split - and if they don't win over a bunch of new fans with 4E, that's going to really sting when it comes to sales.

 

About the only way I see a new edition happening is if two conditions are met:

- FFG decide that one side of the split or another is large enough and willing to spend enough money to make a new edition worthwhile.

- FFG can see a way to make a new edition which will a) convince whichever faction they choose to side with to buy it and b) give then enough profit to make the endeavour worthwhile.

 

I really don't think that's what FFG are seeing at the moment.


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#154 ragnar63

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 07:59 AM

Read this topic, mulled over it, actually created an account to reply. Hello, everyone!

 

My take: I have severe doubts that we will see a 4th edition of WFRP.

 

As has been pointed out here, 3rd Edition ended up splitting the fanbase in a way which 2nd Edition simply didn't. I'm not going to engage in any edition warrior nonsense here because let's face it, we've all seen the arguments one way or another already and everyone's already made their minds up on this point, but I don't think anyone here is going to deny that a split has occurred. Maybe it goes one way in some local scenes and groups, maybe it goes a different way elsewhere - with only anecdotal evidence to go on it's hard to see the extent. But it's fairly clear that it's happened.

 

(As an aside: ICV2 sales statistics are interesting, but should be taken with a pinch of salt. They only compile those things from a few brick-and-mortar games shops - which have an increasingly small presence in the sales space compared to online mail order anyway - and even then only those shops who a) receive the ICV2 survey and b) bother to send it back. It is by no means clear whether or not this is a fair or representative sample. Additionally, there's been swathes of games over the years which have come out, shot to the upper regions of the ICV2 charts in the early phases of the product line, and then sink like a stone because there's few sales happening beyond the burst of early adopters.)

 

I think recent events with the DH2 beta playtest show that Fantasy Flight are very, very cautious these days about anything which might split the fanbase for one of their game lines. The fact that they completely retooled the beta because people loudly omplained that the original beta would destroy backward compatibility says it all. Indeed, I think it's partly that lack of backward compatibility that I think has driven the split in the WFRP fanbase: 2nd edition was, with a few patches here and there, a very complete game line, even more so if you took 1st edition stuff into account - and using 1st edition stuff with 2E really was a breeze, and for a lot of people - including me - it simply wasn't worth buying into a brand new system we couldn't use our old books with (at least, not without much more extensive restatting than would be required to use a 1E book with 2E) when we already had enough WFRP goodies to last us a lifetime.

 

Fantasy Flight seem to have come to the conclusion that it isn't worth radically retooling a game if in the course of doing so you end up splitting the fanbase (particularly when you are talking about Warhammer-based RPGs, which are more likely to attract the hardcore gamer crowd rather than attracting an expansive new demographic who haven't previously touched this sort of game). I don't actually blame them for this. A split fanbase leads at best to reduced sales, because half the people who'd otherwise be fans of your game aren't touching your new products because they're sticking with the old system; at worst, it leads to toxic relations within the game's community as edition warring runs rampant (just look at all the ill feeling generated by the D&D edition wars).

 

It's notable that the WFRP 3E style of presentation seems to have been inherited by the Star Wars games - being new games set in the Star Wars universe, those games aren't going to offend the existing fanbase (because even people fond of older Star Wars RPGs aren't seriously going to expect FFG to simply reprint WEG's or Wizards of the Coast's Star Wars stuff). Because FFG have a more or less clean slate to work with - because nobody has any preconceptions as to what a Star Wars RPG from FFG would look like - they're free to apply whatever system they like there. Conversely, the 40K RPGs which have emerged since WFRP 3 came out have incorporated none of its innovations, and with the clear fan demand that new editions of the games be backward compatible I don't see that they're ever likely to.

 

In short, I don't expect to see FFG ever applying radical top-to-bottom system changes to any of their existing RPG franchises in the foreseeable future, because of this reluctance to split the fanbase. As it stands, the WFRP fanbase is already split. And there's no good solution I can see for undoing that.

 

- If they go back to a 2E-style system, that'll enrage those who preferred 3E even though it'll excite the 2E/1E fans.

 

- If they put out a revised 3E, they won't win back any of the people who got off the bandwagon when 3E originally came out, and they might piss off the 3E fans anyway depending on how they do it. (How many of you want to buy brand new boxes, hm?)

 

- If they make a brand new system, they're more likely to end up with a 3-way split than they are to mend the split - and if they don't win over a bunch of new fans with 4E, that's going to really sting when it comes to sales.

 

About the only way I see a new edition happening is if two conditions are met:

- FFG decide that one side of the split or another is large enough and willing to spend enough money to make a new edition worthwhile.

- FFG can see a way to make a new edition which will a) convince whichever faction they choose to side with to buy it and b) give then enough profit to make the endeavour worthwhile.

 

I really don't think that's what FFG are seeing at the moment.

 

Which means that WFRP is dead, apart from fan material, for the long forseeable future. Sad but possibly true, although if the franchise goes to another developer then all bets are off. However I am doubtful about that happening as well. Which means we are relying on GW to boost WFRP by pushing development of it. Sorry, I think I just heard hell freezing over.



#155 ArthurB

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 10:12 AM

Now, to be fair, GW do actually have a good reason right now to encourage full exploitation of the various licences they've given by their licensees - royalties from licensees were the only part of the business where profits were up in the latest financials, whereas the core wargame and minis sales have tanked.

 

But they'll probably just try to repair the core business instead.

 

FWIW, most of the gamers I know in my local circles didn't get on the WFRP 3 bandwagon because they (including me) were all satisfied with WFRP 2 and didn't like the change. (We like our boardgames, mind, it's just that we find that boardgames and tabletop RPGs scratch different itches and have very different strength and adding more boardgamey bits to RPGs didn't feel like something we were interested in.) At the same time, we aren't actually playing much WFRP 2 at the moment because the 40K RPGs (which basically all run off systems that are clear descendants of WFRP 2) are the new hotness - perhaps we'll see more activity once the activity on that side dies down.



#156 ragnar63

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 10:22 AM

 

 

But they'll probably just try to repair the core business instead.

 

 

 

Got it in one, I am afraid. WFRP has never been more than a limited sideline. As long as the 40k stuff is bringing in the shekels, GW will not give a damn if WFRP is dead and buried.

 

If you have a look at the SW stuff the "boardgamey" element has already bit the dust. The dice pool is essentially what is left from 3rd edition. FFG have learnt their lesson there.


Edited by ragnar63, 17 February 2014 - 10:27 AM.


#157 Beren Eoath

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 11:29 AM

Yes, GW does not care for WFRP.

Yes, the community is splitted becouse every new edition splits the community. Backward capability is good but it can not be always aplied to new edition. I still know guys that play WFRP 1e and think of 2e and 3e as worst then 1e. The are even people that still play AD&D and do not think about going into 3/3.5/4 or next. About this brealking community even WotC think - that's why they are publishing D&D Next - they want to unite players from prevoius editions into this new one. This is one of the option FFG could choose to reanimate WFRP and make use of the licence.

And Yes, SW RPG lines take the best parts of WFRP 3e mixed it with a more classical aproach to RPG and it is selling good. A part of this is thanks to the setting the other the mechanics. Personaly I'm not a fan of sci-fi RPGs but SW is good and I like the feel of it. It's really a easy to run and play game. Thanks to begginers game boxes every onecan try them without buying the core rulebook.

Looking at how FFG is handing SW RPG lines I can say that they learned from there experience with WFRP 3e. Now if they would apply it to WFRP line it would be good.

Maybe a new edition that would take all best parts from each of previous edition under a new banner will unite some parts of the community. Who knows.

One thing is sure FFG should do something to make use of Warhammer Fantasy licence - publishing nothing is pointless. There is no sense for keeping the licence when they do not publish games useing it.



#158 GmMichael

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 12:49 PM

I suppose I don't get this "board game" idea. Both D&D 4 and Pathfinder have initiative trackers, condition markers, standups/tokens, and power cards. Newer titles like Star Wars and Shadowrun 4 are using gear and talent cards. A lot of you guys constantly bring up the component issue but this title is hardly exclusive in that regard. Sure, they put a lot in their core box instead of making them separate purchases but I don't view 3e as this massive experiment with components that went awry. Just an observation.



#159 Keeop

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 12:54 PM

I suppose I don't get this "board game" idea. Both D&D 4 and Pathfinder have initiative trackers, condition markers, standups/tokens, and power cards. Newer titles like Star Wars and Shadowrun 4 are using gear and talent cards. A lot of you guys constantly bring up the component issue but this title is hardly exclusive in that regard. Sure, they put a lot in their core box instead of making them separate purchases but I don't view 3e as this massive experiment with components that went awry. Just an observation.

You're not wrong, and if anything you're simply seeing 3e for what it is, which is FFG doing what they do best by providing an engaging experience that contains a ton of "stuff". What you're also seeing is a vocal minority that isn't part of the roots FFG base coming on mic to represent one slice of the RPG demographic. Most of these cats are representing the OSR niches or just OS in general. Hey, that's great. They rode the tide in and aren't finding the experience they're conditioned to or accustomed to.

 

Anti-component rhetoric is best left ignored. It clearly works for many companies over the breadth of many titles. More of a hobby-in-general deal than a WFRP specific issue, obviously. Outside of fatigue and stress tokens it's looking more and more like Star Wars will eventually be just as heavy with component options, just not lumped into a Core Box... which if they learned anything it was that... give the New Guard optional accessories but keep a Core book separate and standalone for the purists. This is the best option for a component-based company with two wildly different demographics barking wishlists at them. Again, though, I think we're backseat to Game of Thrones, Star Wars, and 40K at this point. Our bi-annual meeting on the subject is fun, but most likely in it's 9th inning.


Edited by Keeop, 17 February 2014 - 01:42 PM.

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#160 Keeop

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 01:31 PM

Read this topic, mulled over it, actually created an account to reply. Hello, everyone!

 

Greetings!






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