Jump to content



Photo

WFRP 4e - how should it look?


  • Please log in to reply
323 replies to this topic

#21 Yepesnopes

Yepesnopes

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,376 posts

Posted 22 January 2014 - 11:11 AM

Unfortunately, from looking at what has happened with the Dark Heresy 2 Beta, FFG seem to have lost their mojo and their spine, 

 

Can you elaborate on that (may be in another thread or mail me)? I am not following Dark Heresy 2 beta

 

Cheers,

Yepes


The Book of the Asur - High Elf fan supplement

The Dark Side - Witches, Warlocks, Dark Magic and more

Secrets of the Anvil - Advanced Dwarf careers and runes

Dice statistics calculator for SW EotE


#22 LordPasty

LordPasty

    Member

  • Members
  • 109 posts

Posted 24 January 2014 - 07:46 AM

I'm curious as well.

#23 LordPasty

LordPasty

    Member

  • Members
  • 109 posts

Posted 24 January 2014 - 07:50 AM

There's a sort of retro clone of 2E coming out, btw. It's called Zwëihander.

#24 ragnar63

ragnar63

    Member

  • Members
  • 383 posts

Posted 24 January 2014 - 11:43 AM

I'm curious as well.

The first version of the Beta had some new and innovative stuff in it. Unfortunately that did not agree with the 40K players who just wanted DH turned into Only War with Inquisitors, who were very vociferous against it on the forum. The second version of the Beta lost all the interesting stuff, so it would appear that the 40K line is damned to rule stagnation. I certainly wouldn't buy the new version of Dark Heresy



#25 LordPasty

LordPasty

    Member

  • Members
  • 109 posts

Posted 24 January 2014 - 01:10 PM

Ok, I see.  I can't speak to the revisions or the original rules changes, but I do think that FFG may be taking the advice of the forums based largely on compatibility with the other 40K games.  I do find it to be an issue that the 40K games have some difficulty meshing at times, but I haven't actually run any of them (though I have played).

 

To be fair, I was heavily resistant to WFRP 3E because I liked 2E so much, but I eventually came around.



#26 Vyndrokos

Vyndrokos

    Member

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 26 January 2014 - 01:37 AM

I really hope they keep everything that is in WHFR 3e. Sure it could use some polishing and more background for newer players. However it is all really good and very refreshing in a world filled with generic dice, feats, states, and tactical grid battles galore. So far personally I haven't found anything in WHFR 3e that I don't like. With how it is currently I get to focus more on roleplaying and not on mechanics. It got enough information available that people have an idea of what to do at a glance with tons of flexibility for roleplaying and narrating what is happening. Things that I see less and less with D20 type games. Please FFG keep WHFR the way it is and just polish a bit more next time. Keep the action cards, party sheets, talents, monster styles, nemesis sheets, tokens, and custom dice.    It is fantastic and fun. I think people are just to set in their ways and 'traditional' to enjoy a fresh, fun style when it comes along. This is of course just my opinion. 


  • Apollwn, Stickyman and GmMichael like this

#27 Apollwn

Apollwn

    Member

  • Members
  • 36 posts

Posted 26 January 2014 - 06:08 PM

WFRP 3e is definately the best rpg I have played till now. I am just looking forward to new expansions and campaigns, a new edition in my opinion is not needed at all.


  • cronevald, k7e9, Stickyman and 1 other like this

#28 Beren Eoath

Beren Eoath

    Member

  • Members
  • 327 posts

Posted 27 January 2014 - 02:08 AM

For me the 3e was nice but it need to be more flexible. It should have more informations for new and old players aboutthe setting, the Empire and so on.

Personaly I would like it to evlve in a edition thet would give the GM & players more options how they want to play, for example : so with cards or without those. SW RPG uses this model so You can play just with the books and everything on character sheet or You can buy a POD to have some talents on cards.

I don't see a 3e as a bad edition but just different and not every player like it. And it's not a bestseller, and this forum is almost dead.

So if FFG want to keep the licence then I think they will release something in this setting if not a new / improved edition then any good expansion for the existing one.

We will see,

 

Cheers



#29 ragnar63

ragnar63

    Member

  • Members
  • 383 posts

Posted 27 January 2014 - 02:59 AM

I really hope they keep everything that is in WHFR 3e. Sure it could use some polishing and more background for newer players. However it is all really good and very refreshing in a world filled with generic dice, feats, states, and tactical grid battles galore. So far personally I haven't found anything in WHFR 3e that I don't like. With how it is currently I get to focus more on roleplaying and not on mechanics. It got enough information available that people have an idea of what to do at a glance with tons of flexibility for roleplaying and narrating what is happening. Things that I see less and less with D20 type games. Please FFG keep WHFR the way it is and just polish a bit more next time. Keep the action cards, party sheets, talents, monster styles, nemesis sheets, tokens, and custom dice.    It is fantastic and fun. I think people are just to set in their ways and 'traditional' to enjoy a fresh, fun style when it comes along. This is of course just my opinion. 

 

 

WFRP 3e is definately the best rpg I have played till now. I am just looking forward to new expansions and campaigns, a new edition in my opinion is not needed at all.

 

You are both right of course. Unfortunately 3rd edition hasn't sold well and is unfortunately basicly dead from the FFG point of view. All we can hope for now is a new edition, if we get that. Hoping for a reprieve for 3rd edition will not change the financial realities, no more than it did for 2nd edition. Again hopefully they will have learned from 3rd edition and will be just as innovative with a 4th edition.



#30 GmMichael

GmMichael

    Member

  • Members
  • 76 posts

Posted 27 January 2014 - 09:25 AM

 

Unfortunately 3rd edition hasn't sold well and is unfortunately basicly dead from the FFG point of view. 

 

 

This is pure speculation. Warranted, given the silence from FFG, but speculation nonetheless.


  • cronevald likes this

#31 Keeop

Keeop

    Member

  • Members
  • 362 posts

Posted 27 January 2014 - 09:27 AM

New folks please don't fall into this. This conversation happens 2-3 times a year always with the same characters on the stage. Everyone's passionate about gaming so it's not a right/wrong thing... it's just proven to be a fruitless conversation. Don't rise to the bait and good gaming. Cheers.


  • cronevald, sepayne7l and Stickyman like this

#32 GmMichael

GmMichael

    Member

  • Members
  • 76 posts

Posted 27 January 2014 - 09:31 AM

New folks please don't fall into this. This conversation happens 2-3 times a year always with the same characters on the stage. Everyone's passionate about gaming so it's not a right/wrong thing... it's just proven to be a fruitless conversation. Don't rise to the bait and good gaming. Cheers.

I just did a search. Wow, I see. Ok, I'm done here :) Thanks for the heads up. I just enjoy the game. I definitely don't want any part of...that other stuff :)


  • cronevald likes this

#33 r_b_bergstrom

r_b_bergstrom

    Member

  • Members
  • 500 posts

Posted 27 January 2014 - 02:12 PM

I would want 4th Ed to be as similar to 3rd Ed as possible, so nearly all the cards etc are compatible. I would only desire changes that could be made in the rulebooks, not on the cards. For example:

  • Improved healing rules, with clarifications and a summary/chart. (If the PCs go to a Hospice of Shallya for mercy-healing, the NPCs give them Immediate Care with First Aid and Medicine, followed by Long-Term Care rolls with First Aid and Medicine, then possibly a Blessing or three, plus the effects of the Location card, and the Hospice care rule, plus maybe a Haggle check or Charm check from the PCs, on top of the normal sleep healing amounts and recovery checks. That's way too much time and die-rolling!)
  • Revisions to the disease rules.  (Timing of onset is kinda weird. Low toughness characters die too easily to disease, and all diseases can potentially kill within days. Symptoms matter more than the disease which means all diseases are too similar/random/flavorless. Medicines often don't kick in till you've taken them 4 or 6 times by which point you're already dead and that one bonus die won't matter.)
  • Better rules for opposed checks. (Probably requires a revised purple die and a new "negative equivalent" of yellow die for skills... but honestly just changing the numbers of the existing dice would be an improvement.)
  • Revisions to the equipment chapter. (Better, complete, pricelist organized in a sensible way. Reduced difficulties on Availability checks. Silver to Brass conversion rate being divisible by 4 so Haggle checks actually work. Black Powder weapons being either cheaper or actually worth the expense.)
  • Horse rules that are more elegant and less annoying. (You shouldn't waste all your actions just trying to keep your horse under control. Riding a horse should also actually make you faster or save you some manoeuvres.)
  • Tweaks to abstract movement. (No ranged weapon should have "Close" as it's range. Or perhaps change the whole scale so Close = within 2 manoeuvres, Medium = within 4, Long = within 8, Extreme = within 12. Or something like that.)
  • Talent sockets should be less of a headache as you level up (Either make it possible to buy extra sockets, or to allow you to spend a manoeuvre to switch which of your completed careers you're using the sockets from. Either change would solve what problems I have with them.)
  • Tweaks to the Henchman rules. (It's silly when you kill 4 henchman with one shot of a pistol. Henchmen also don't have clear interactions with area-effect mechanics like fireballs, blunderbuses or Fear checks.)
  • A single Morale mechanic. (There's actually two contradictory systems in two different chapters of the current GM's guide, and both are optional, despite there being creature mechanics/powers that interact with them. Neither of them interact particularly well with the Henchman rules or PCs using Fear mechanics.)
  • Revisions to the Influence/Social Combat mechanics. (There should be a stat that defines how much Influencing it takes to completely sway an NPC, with concrete examples on an easy-to-use chart. There also needs to be some mechanic that prevents 4-vs-1 gang ups, 'cause it's stupid how easily the PCs can socially overpower any NPC they manage to catch alone.)
  • Plugging the loophole created by humans swapping careers willy-nilly (Already partly plugged by optional rule in sidebar in Player's Guide, but it's still mildly abusable even with that.)
  • A more logical list of careers for Ogres and Halflings. (Ogres can be Ambassadors and Navigators in the current rules!)
  • An elf boxed set.

 

In other words, I'd be much more interested in a 3.5 than a 4th Ed. All the changes I feel the game needs could fit in a single slim paperback volume like they include in any of the boxed sets.

 

About the only cards I'd like to see changed are:

  • Party Cards (Great concept, clunky execution. Should be continual minor penalty when tension is high, instead of the current thing that triggers and then resets.)
  • Monster Group Cards (nearly all of them feature 8-step trackers that move 1 step per turn, so they never trigger before the battle ends). 
  • Maybe the Disease cards. (Though I think these are probably saveable as-is by just revising the rules of how they work.)
  • A couple of the more potent cards could still use errata... but I'd be fine if that errata was just adding "Epic" to them.
  • Maybe the Location cards. (They're okay as-is, but would be better if larger, full-color, with all the info in a larger font and on the same side as the picture.)

Edited by r_b_bergstrom, 27 January 2014 - 02:14 PM.

  • GmMichael likes this

#34 Emirikol

Emirikol

    ~Ĉiam subskribi antaŭ-nup kun Fimir

  • Members
  • 5,095 posts

Posted 27 January 2014 - 10:51 PM

I'd like to see a different writer.  Perhaps someone who can get it organized in an easily usable format   :)  You'd think from a boardgame company that it would have been better written for ease of use ad reference.

 

[edit:  I still think the thought of a 4e is a completely stupid waste of time and resources when we don't even have an elf or rogue product out yet.  What?  I'm going to go out and buy all these boxed sets again because they say 4e and "trimmed the rules a little?"  I don't disagree with Bergstrom's assessment, but I still cant justify a 4e.

 

4E WOULD BE AN ABSURD WASTE OF MY TIME]


Edited by Emirikol, 28 January 2014 - 02:37 PM.

  • Keeop and GmMichael like this

#35 Keeop

Keeop

    Member

  • Members
  • 362 posts

Posted 28 January 2014 - 07:49 AM

I'd like to see a different writer.  Perhaps someone who can get it organized in an easily usable format   :)  You'd think from a boardgame company that it would have been better written for ease of use ad reference.

Many of their board games suffer from poor manuals as well. If the license fees aren't too brutal maybe the margins made from all of those hardcover Star Wars splats will afford them the opportunity to hire some decent copy editors :)



#36 ragnar63

ragnar63

    Member

  • Members
  • 383 posts

Posted 28 January 2014 - 07:59 AM

 

I'd like to see a different writer.  Perhaps someone who can get it organized in an easily usable format   :)  You'd think from a boardgame company that it would have been better written for ease of use ad reference.

Many of their board games suffer from poor manuals as well. If the license fees aren't too brutal maybe the margins made from all of those hardcover Star Wars splats will afford them the opportunity to hire some decent copy editors :)

 

 

I imagine the license fees for Star Wars make GW's look like a drop in the ocean. Unfortunately I suspect it is just down to the culture at FFG.

 

As to why we keep getting a more or less repeat of this issue very 4-6 months, it comes from peoples frustration at not knowing what is happening with WFRP and whether there is any future for 3rd edition, I imagine. Of course it is just speculation, but remember FFG have form in this direction and so the speculation looks less like myth and more like legend.


Edited by ragnar63, 28 January 2014 - 02:32 PM.


#37 Yepesnopes

Yepesnopes

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,376 posts

Posted 28 January 2014 - 01:48 PM

Well, reading this thread and similar ones, I think what will be best is that FFG takes his time to release a 4th edition. 2 or 3 years. Well after Force and Destiny (the 3rd core book for the SW line).

I say that because on one hand there is many people who like the 3rd edition. Those people really do not need anything else to play the game. There is plenty of material only with the 3rd edition, and looking a bit around you can find all you want from previous editions. This should be enough to play for years, and honestly, this edition does not need more cards in the form of PODs.

On the other hand, there is people like me who would prefer a 4th edition. Well, in that case I prefer they take their time. See how SW evolves, iterate once more based on the SW system, make a beta version of the core book that contains ALL the rules needed to play the game and release it for beta testing.

 

Cheers,

Yepes


  • ragnar63 likes this

The Book of the Asur - High Elf fan supplement

The Dark Side - Witches, Warlocks, Dark Magic and more

Secrets of the Anvil - Advanced Dwarf careers and runes

Dice statistics calculator for SW EotE


#38 ragnar63

ragnar63

    Member

  • Members
  • 383 posts

Posted 28 January 2014 - 02:36 PM

Well, reading this thread and similar ones, I think what will be best is that FFG takes his time to release a 4th edition. 2 or 3 years. Well after Force and Destiny (the 3rd core book for the SW line).

I say that because on one hand there is many people who like the 3rd edition. Those people really do not need anything else to play the game. There is plenty of material only with the 3rd edition, and looking a bit around you can find all you want from previous editions. This should be enough to play for years, and honestly, this edition does not need more cards in the form of PODs.

On the other hand, there is people like me who would prefer a 4th edition. Well, in that case I prefer they take their time. See how SW evolves, iterate once more based on the SW system, make a beta version of the core book that contains ALL the rules needed to play the game and release it for beta testing.

 

Cheers,

Yepes

 

Very well put! The only thing I would add is that they need to be as radical with a 4th edition, as they were with 3rd. Otherwise there will be very little point in a 4th edition.



#39 jondifool

jondifool

    Member

  • Members
  • 10 posts

Posted 28 January 2014 - 04:25 PM

I'd like to see a different writer.  Perhaps someone who can get it organized in an easily usable format   :)  You'd think from a boardgame company that it would have been better written for ease of use ad reference.

 

[edit:  I still think the thought of a 4e is a completely stupid waste of time and resources when we don't even have an elf or rogue product out yet.  What?  I'm going to go out and buy all these boxed sets again because they say 4e and "trimmed the rules a little?"  I don't disagree with Bergstrom's assessment, but I still cant justify a 4e.

 

4E WOULD BE AN ABSURD WASTE OF MY TIME]

 

i like to see most of the stuff streamlined aswell, but agree that there is no need for a 4ed atm, at least from a regular players point of view. A rougue book combined with the horned rat/skavens serves perfekt as a 5'th source set complimenting the 4 chaos gods and the 4 human power factions.

A campaign or at least a bunch of  scenarios dealing with undead is something that i see missing aswell.

A set of magical items- print on demand should be a sure sell also.



#40 r_b_bergstrom

r_b_bergstrom

    Member

  • Members
  • 500 posts

Posted 28 January 2014 - 09:05 PM

[edit:  I still think the thought of a 4e is a completely stupid waste of time and resources when we don't even have an elf or rogue product out yet.  What?  I'm going to go out and buy all these boxed sets again because they say 4e and "trimmed the rules a little?"  I don't disagree with Bergstrom's assessment, but I still cant justify a 4e.

 

4E WOULD BE AN ABSURD WASTE OF MY TIME]

 

For the record, I'd rather there not be a 4th Ed either. I put a lot of money into 3rd Ed (bought everything), and am enjoying the game as it is.

 

I wouldn't mind if they did some future boxed set (elves or rogues or whatever) and included a slim volume with a few revised rules sections, as noted above.

 

If I "have" to buy all the boxed sets all over again, I'd be pretty upset, and it would take a heck of a lot to convince me to convert over to a new edition.






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS