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WFRP 4e - how should it look?


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#1 Beren Eoath

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 01:36 AM

Looking at the fact of no announcements, lack of informations and so on the future of Warhammer Fantasy looks darker then it should.  The biggest queston still remains what FFG will do with the line and licence to make games set in the Old Worls. Looking at how many ideas they could be and how many games they could make I would like to discus, for a few moments how the new games should be like.

One of my first and biggest wishes for a game would be a new, redesigned Warhammer Quest. A cooperative game with no GM and players as heroes that explore the Old World. This could be a good card game or a board game with some RPG feeling.

The next one would be a new WFRP. Looking at how succesful are the lines that are splited like SW or W40k I just wondered if theis can be applied to WFRP? If yes, then how it could be splitted? Based on:

- races: so that would lead to an human, elf and dwarf lines (but how about halflings or ogres then?)

- regions: so one for Empire, other for Bretonia and so on

- based on specific aspects of the Old World: so there would be a setting like Defend the Border when you would play a military campains, The Heresy Within: focused on heresy, cults and set in the cities; Wildlands: with andevtures set in the forests, mountains and other wild places where the civilisation never come

The last example would be a good fit, maybe even the best, becouse it would allow them to make 3 line in every they could fit a little bit diferend races options, other careers. And all would be compatible within those.

Do You think FFG will drop the licence or continue it and still make games set in Warhammer Fantasy?



#2 Beren Eoath

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 01:42 AM

Ups. sorry for a double topic. Let's just stay in one and have some nice discussion about what FFG wil do with the licence, what games they could make, ok?



#3 Beren Eoath

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 01:50 AM

I forgotten one more thing if FFG would do a Warhammer Quest, the licence at this point forbits them to make minaitures, the could do 2 things: renegotiate the licence or make a game and GW would make optional box with miniatures for the game. Such thing happen and this would not harm the licence. Everybody would be happy.

Let's hope that FFG will not drop the licence and still make games set in WF. New RPG, board game and card game would be appreciated it they continue with the licence.

Cheers



#4 LordPasty

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 09:26 AM

I personally can't stand the style of releases in the 40K line. It becomes very confusing if one wants to use the multiple games at once. I also don't think it would be a sound business decision on the part of FFG (for WFRP).

Having said that I have admit to owning most of the core books for 40K.
:)

As to what I would like to see if there's a WFRP 4?

A core book that covers most of the same ground as the core set for WFRP 3.

Then I'd like to see them cover some of the same ground as Green Ronin did with WFRP 2.

I think making the elves more available would do well for the bottom line, even if some of the purists get uneasy.

Edited by LordPasty, 21 January 2014 - 09:42 AM.


#5 LordPasty

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 09:30 AM

I'd like to see stances kept, but wounds and strain more like EotE.

Same crazy dice, but maybe more like EotE with the WFRP theme.

Edited by LordPasty, 21 January 2014 - 09:44 AM.


#6 DurakBlackaxe

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 09:48 AM

If you could separate WFB from WFRP, so that the 5 main races worked together more. It would help open up elves more.

Moving away from the old world, there is more interaction.

 

Eg Teclis and tyrion book you read humans and elves working together to find a sword in Lustria.

 

Bring in Elven magic. Maybe not the all powerful elven wizard lord, but some form of caster at least. Already have wizard lords, and rune lords in the game.


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#7 valvorik

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 10:15 AM

I would like any "4th edition" to really be a "3.5" in the sense of keep the same mechanics generally but revisit:

 

- Party Card (group identity and sharing talents and consequences cool idea, poorly executed)

- A few particular action cards that need some revision to be useable etc. or simply don't fit well with the "investigation/mystery" part of WFRP (truth telling, item finding win buttons).

- More support for non-humans other than dwarves (which I think is commercially sensible as that appeals to many players)

- More differentiated counters (e.g., use Arkham Horro line brains and blood for Stress and Fatigue).

- Move away from the sepia tone art for location cards to something clearer on a table top.

 

I like the WFRP dice more than EoE actually for the 1/8th Chaos Star chances.

 

Really it's just polish it all up and integrated it better into a new set.

 

I recognize that their licence/GW approval mix probably makes "fleshing out more of Old World" difficult but they could presumably do at least as much as 2nd Edition.


Edited by valvorik, 21 January 2014 - 10:18 AM.


#8 GmMichael

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 10:18 AM

Some elf love aside I'm not sure what a 4th edition rpg could do that I can't already accomplish with 2nd or 3rd edition. I already own Star Wars so I wouldn't be interested in repurchasing that system just to have an Old World skin on it. I don't know. RPG-wise I guess I'm fine with what I have. Board game-wise I'd love to see a strategic/tactical board game sort of along the lines of War of the Ring or Axis. Not a full, blown wargame, but a medium-range kind of thing. Much more intricate and satisfying than Batlelore but not as complex as Ogre. I'm probably not describing that well but you can probably put it together.



#9 GoblynKing

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 10:56 AM

I would like any "4th edition" to really be a "3.5" in the sense of keep the same mechanics generally but revisit:

 

I agree wholeheartedly! Rather than shoot themselves in the foot by making all the components and rules that have come outta 3rd edition useless, I'd rather see them retool and clean up the rules/mechanics without making things like the exsisting custom dice, actions cards, etc irrelevant.

 

Physically, I'd like to see a thick hardcover core rulebook that covers all the rules needed to play for players & GMs. This could be supported by a boxed set that contains all the cards, dice and components needed. Or they could be combined into a combo...perhaps a hardcover book and box that fit inside a slipcase of some sort?



#10 Emirikol

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 11:36 AM

I'd rather see nothing at all than get fleeced for another edition that would be little more than a dumbed-down version of what we already have.  Wishing that a perfect system would come out is less useful to me than another scenario or elf product.


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#11 GmMichael

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 11:38 AM

I'd rather see nothing at all than get fleeced for another edition that would be little more than a dumbed-down version of what we already have.  Wishing that a perfect system would come out is less useful to me than another scenario or elf product.

 

Agree 100%. 


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#12 Beren Eoath

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 12:56 PM

But we are not disscucing if we want it or not, becouse it's not our decission to make. If FFG will want it then they will make it and we got nothing to say. Here we are just gathering thought about  how a new incarnation of WFRP could look, what we would like it to have if it ever will be made by FFG.

 

I totally agre with some ideas, I will post those below:

- the core rulebook should be a hardback, thick - 400 pages would be nice book (even when it the line would be splited then every one of those should be like that)

- new edition should have a Beginners Box so You could try the system before buying it

- it should cover all of the material from 3e and 2nd edition

- narrative custom dice should stay becouse they are a great storytelling tool

 

Cheers


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#13 Eradico Pravus

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 02:37 PM

I would like any "4th edition" to really be a "3.5" in the sense of keep the same mechanics generally but revisit:

 

- Party Card (group identity and sharing talents and consequences cool idea, poorly executed)

- A few particular action cards that need some revision to be useable etc. or simply don't fit well with the "investigation/mystery" part of WFRP (truth telling, item finding win buttons).

- More support for non-humans other than dwarves (which I think is commercially sensible as that appeals to many players)

- More differentiated counters (e.g., use Arkham Horro line brains and blood for Stress and Fatigue).

- Move away from the sepia tone art for location cards to something clearer on a table top.

 

I like the WFRP dice more than EoE actually for the 1/8th Chaos Star chances.

 

Really it's just polish it all up and integrated it better into a new set.

 

I recognize that their licence/GW approval mix probably makes "fleshing out more of Old World" difficult but they could presumably do at least as much as 2nd Edition.

 

If it means getting more adventures and occasional supplements then I agree with this (and Beren Eoath's post above) ^

 

Tilea, Border Principalities, Black Gulf, Sylvania, Kislev are all areas I'd like to see explored more.

 

Strip the system down a little but keep the dice! Chaos stars make the system! :)

 

The 40K roleplay system is a dreadful bodge. Do not emulate.


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#14 GoblynKing

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 02:54 PM

Yeah, this thread is for speculating about what IF Fantasy Flight were to put out a new edition, and if so, what we'd like to see in it.

 

I too would prefer they just stick with their current edition/version and just support the line more-so than they have over the past year, but alas that ain't happenin' at the moment.

 

In the meanwhile, I'm happy playing with what I have, it's still a great system, and I love it, which is why I'm prone to criticizing and tweaking the damn thing all the time...I enjoy it so much, I can't leave it alone!

 

But I digress...yes, IF a new "edition" were released, I'd rather it be akin to when AD&D moved from 3rd Edition to 3.5 Edition...basically the same rules, with a few things cleaned up and a couple of broken ideas removed/supplanted and a better overall aesthetic (though WFRP3rdEd has that is spades already...gorgeous game) but still compatible with what had come before (with minimal conversion necessary).


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#15 GmMichael

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 03:35 PM

Well, in that case I guess I'd like to see 4E look exactly like 3E, just with an Elf box and more campaign sets. If there was one thing I would change it's opposed checks. I find the way that it's handled in Edge of the Empire to be very intuitive and quick. Otherwise I have no complaints or further speculation.


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#16 Keeop

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 03:54 PM

Nothing new to add since we discussed it last summer. We're all still here, yearning or something :)



#17 valvorik

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 04:52 PM

re the 3.5 idea, yes I mean basically it's the same game with some "fixes", not invalidating all your earlier stuff. 

 

For example, the card system make it easy to replace cards or instruct just removing some.  The same things that make houserules and tweaks so easy without "breaking the core engine" also let it be added to etc.

 

The Border Territories, Sylvania etc. all good examples of things earlier editions covered that could be covered in this one without breaking GW canon or answering questions GW wants left open etc. 

 

If a WFBattles book covered it, then the RPG should be able to is my view, e.g., lizardmen statted etc., along with more suggestions for "make your mutant human or other creature".

 

I love WFRP, it saved roleplaying for me when I was burned out on D&D and "tactical" stuff.


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#18 ragnar63

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 05:16 AM

I'd rather see nothing at all than get fleeced for another edition that would be little more than a dumbed-down version of what we already have.  Wishing that a perfect system would come out is less useful to me than another scenario or elf product.

 

 

Nothing new to add since we discussed it last summer. We're all still here, yearning or something :)

 

Agree with you both, but however:

 

1. WFRP3 appears to be dead. FFG have learnt all they can from it, which they are now trying out in SW. Once SW and DH2 are out the way, they will have a choice of either doing a 4th edition or giving up the WFRP license. It will have to be a 4th edition as the core rule books are where the money is, as everybody buys them.

 

2. Action Cards need to be replaced by Talents and they should nearly all be in the Core rule set, as should careers. Any action cards / talents added later must be carefully playtested so that they do not adversely affect earlier cards / talents, as has happened with 3rd edition.

 

3. Playtesting must be done at higher levels and career progression carefully checked so that you do not get the anomalies that resulted in 3rd edition.

 

4. Magic needs to be revamped so that the cantrips are easy and cost nothing, but as the spells get harder the more deadly they become and the more dangerous to cast and push. Also spells should cost fatigue as well as magic points, so pushing that high level, highly destructive spell, could kill all the enemy in one go but could conceivably knock out the wizard as well whether the spell goes off properly or not.

 

5. Use the Action Point system from DH2 Beta to make combat more interesting. With this you can make more attacks with a dagger or a foil but they will largely be useless against armour. However a slower greatsword will make fewer attacks but is more likely to cleave through armour.

 

6. Production Schedule:

 

   A. Core rule set with rules for Halflings and Humans. (Forget Ogres, bad idea)

   B. Complete guide to one Empire town or city. (Campaign setting)

   C. Magic guide (wizards and spells)

   D. Religion guide (priests and blessings)

   E. Dwarf guide (Include rules for running an all dwarf party in a small karak, which should also be laid out as well + Rune Magic & Engineering)

   F. High Elf guide (Gazetteer of Ulthuan, as well as details on running parties fighting against Naggaroth + High Magic)

   G.Wood Elf guide (Gazetteer of Athel Loren etc)

   H. Campaign guide (Pathfiinder Ultimate Campaign Guide is the best thing here if you want an idea. How to set up and run businesses and even small kingdoms, including trade rules)

   J. Border Princes guide (To be used with H above)

   K. Lustria guide (Including guide to one or more settlements on the coast. To be used with H above)

   L. Sartosa guide (Including rules for naval campaigns, ship handling and naval careers. Will be useful with K above)

 

With B to L above, there should be a seperate GM's guide (available seperately) which would have the adventures and stuff PC's wouldn't or shouldn't know. The order of release is a rough guide only.


Edited by ragnar63, 22 January 2014 - 05:18 AM.

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#19 GmMichael

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 07:54 AM

Interesting ideas, Ragnar. I guess we'll see what FFG has up their sleeves. My only real concern is that there just isn't a big enough demographic to support an ambitious project. If Netrunner, LotR, GoT, and Star Wars are their new fiscal bars I wouldn't be surprised to see Fantasy take the back seat on the bus while they focus on 40k and their more embraced IP's. All speculation, of course, but one can't help but feel that's the direction we're sliding. As evidenced on these boards, there's an awful big divide in the Fantasy community playstyle. I'm beginning to be doubtful that there's one title that could bring everyone on board.



#20 ragnar63

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 10:59 AM

Interesting ideas, Ragnar. I guess we'll see what FFG has up their sleeves. My only real concern is that there just isn't a big enough demographic to support an ambitious project. If Netrunner, LotR, GoT, and Star Wars are their new fiscal bars I wouldn't be surprised to see Fantasy take the back seat on the bus while they focus on 40k and their more embraced IP's. All speculation, of course, but one can't help but feel that's the direction we're sliding. As evidenced on these boards, there's an awful big divide in the Fantasy community playstyle. I'm beginning to be doubtful that there's one title that could bring everyone on board.

 

FFG therefore have a choice:

 

1. Give up the license so that somebody else can try their hand at it.

 

2. Produce a new, exciting, much improved version that will bring people back to the Old World from other versions. Otherwise, the dempgraphic, as you say, will decrease further.

 

Unfortunately, from looking at what has happened with the Dark Heresy 2 Beta, FFG seem to have lost their mojo and their spine, and so the 1st option looks the better one for WFRP, I am afraid. Harsh but true, from my point of view.


Edited by ragnar63, 22 January 2014 - 10:59 AM.

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