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Plague Worms : Burrows


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#1 ascaric

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 01:45 AM

hello,

 

can a Plague Worm use its Burrows skill to move through a closed door (without opening)

 

thanks

 

 



#2 Steve-O

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 08:13 PM

No.

The plague worm needs to count spaces to where it comes up, and counting spaces requires the spaces to be adjacent, each to the next.

Doors explicitly break adjacency when they are closed.

#3 ascaric

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 07:24 AM

i found this on the bbg's forum:

 

-----------------------------------------

Q: How exactly does the plague worms burrow movement work? Does the worm move 3 spaces as per the large monster movement rules but ignores figures and obsticals because it is esentialy under ground? Or does he need to be placed compleatly within the 3 spaces? Which would be the same as its speed of 2.

A:It works the same way as large monster movement: choose a space within 3 spaces (ignoring figures and obstacles), then "expand" the Plague Worm in a direction of your choice.

Thanks,
Justin Kemppainen
Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
jkemppainen@fantasyflightgames.com

 

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so, it seems that they could pass trough closed door



#4 griton

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 10:28 AM

so, it seems that they could pass trough closed door

 

I'm not seeing where you're getting that. "Within X spaces" is pretty clearly defined in the rulebook (see Counting Spaces) and has been confirmed by FFG a number of times that it doesn't work through doors.

 

Note that a door is not considered an obstacle. Obstacle is a game term referring to a specific set of items that are called out as such, and doors are never referred to as obstacles.


Edited by griton, 23 January 2014 - 10:30 AM.


#5 Steve-O

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 08:04 PM

so, it seems that they could pass trough closed door


I disagree. Justin says it "works like large monster movement." Can large monsters move through a closed door? No, they cannot.

This answer only adds further support to what I was saying above, and it contradicts none of the points I made.

#6 ascaric

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 01:26 AM

 

so, it seems that they could pass trough closed door


I disagree. Justin says it "works like large monster movement." Can large monsters move through a closed door? No, they cannot.

 

 

does large monster ignore figures and obstacles?   no they cannot too ...



#7 rugal

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 05:50 AM

being purely logic, worms would be able to since they go under the door.

 

But, the game being not logical, since you must count spaces, and you can't through doors, it's no.


Edited by rugal, 24 January 2014 - 07:40 AM.


#8 Steve-O

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 07:24 AM

does large monster ignore figures and obstacles?   no they cannot too ...


You have a remarkable ability to completely ignore everything other than the single thing you just finished reading.

Here's how it works, as simply as I can put it:
- The plague worm's Burrow ability requires you to pick a space "within 3 spaces" where the worm will come up.
- Which spaces are "within X" is determined by using the rules for counting spaces, described on page 13 of the core rulebook.
- in order to count spaces, the spaces being counted must be connected by being adjacent.
- closed doors explicitly break adjacency between spaces on either side, so you can't "count spaces" through a closed door (this is mentioned in the rules for counting spaces.)

- Therefore spaces on the other side of a closed door cannot be "within 3" of the plague worm, because you can't count past the door.
- therefore you cannot Burrow through a closed door.

 

Justin's answer, which compares Burrow to large monster movement, does not add anything that contradicts the above logic.

 

You can play by whatever house rules help you sleep at night, but the official answer, per RAW and supported by Justin, is that no, you cannot burrow through a closed door.


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#9 griton

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 10:25 AM

Justin's reference to large monster movement basically means: pick one of the spaces the worm currently occupies, and start counting from there (the same way you "shrink" with large monsters), then after you count 3 spaces, you expand from that point.

 

The "ignoring obstacles and figures" (and terrain, though he didn't mention it), is what separates the worm from other large monsters.

 

So basically, the worm's burrow is treated like a move action that can ignore obstacles, figures, and terrain, but also can't be interrupted, but the "shrink/expand" mechanic still applies, just like it does with other large monsters.



#10 evilhead

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Posted 24 January 2014 - 08:30 PM

Uh.



#11 griton

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 09:15 AM

Uh.

?



#12 jadedbacon

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 09:27 AM

! (I don't know)


Never believe in "never"

- Algus Sadalfas


#13 aniedrig

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 01:49 PM

I agree with steve-o. they cannot burrow through closed doors, even though a door is not underground and therefore logically should not block "burrow". but doors are explicitly supposed to block all movement for a reason.

 

my guess is, that "burrow" is supposed to be the equivalent to "flying". all it is meant to give you, is the ability to ignore obstacles, like enemy figures. and you cannot fly over closed doors either.

 

if a worm was able to fly, they would have given it the "flying" ability, but it is not, so it got the "burrow" ability  :lol:


Edited by aniedrig, 27 January 2014 - 01:50 PM.


#14 Steve-O

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 08:45 PM

my guess is, that "burrow" is supposed to be the equivalent to "flying". all it is meant to give you, is the ability to ignore obstacles, like enemy figures. and you cannot fly over closed doors either.


Burrow is not exactly like Fly though. A figure that flies still moves through spaces (which means it "enters" those spaces in case any hero abilities key off that.) Burrowing does not pass through the spaces in between. It disappears here and reappears there.

Also, a burrowing monster can move figures out of the space(s) where it comes up. Flyers can ignore figures while moving but they have to stop in a legal space.




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