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Bones of Woe+ Dark Fortune


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#1 sergeant shu

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 10:33 AM

We came across this question in a campaign. First time posting so be gentle. The OL decided to play Dark Fortune in response to a Bones of Woe roll that didn't yield a surge. My argument was that it was not allowed since the card does not specifically state that it can be played "at the start of your turn" which is definitely the window in which Bones of Woe trigger. The wording in the rulebook makes it seem like cards that trigger at the start of your turn and OL cards that can be played "at the start of your turn" are the only thing that can happen in that phase. Let me know your thoughts. Please and thank you.



#2 PlainWhiteBread

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 11:09 AM

Dark Fortune reads: "Play this card after you roll dice. You may reroll 1 die."

Has he rolled dice? Yes. Can he play it? Yes.

Cards specifically have 'At the start of your (the Overlord's) turn' because they would be a lot more powerful without that limitation. They must be played at the start of your turn, or else they cannot be played until the next Start of Overlord Turn; this also applies to hero abilities, skills and feats, so it cuts both ways.

He's spent his Dark Fortune, so unless he has cards to pull it from his discard pile, he won't be playing it anytime soon; He chose not to spend it to prevent a crucial miss down the line, or a poor damage/defense roll, so take solace of the fact that if he used it for Bones of Woe, he isn't going to surprise you with it until much later, after the OL deck reshuffles.

Also, the Bones of Woe is a relic, meaning it has to be used when a Lieutenant monster is in play: If the OL has no lieutenants to 'equip' this relic to, he cannot use it.



#3 sergeant shu

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 12:17 PM

Thanks for the quick response. I don't necessarily know what the designers are thinking with these abilities so I'm always glad to have a second opinion. I seem to have more rules questions with this game than any other I've played (probably since there are so many abilities that interact). I think what tripped me up was the statement on page 8 of the rulebook that says:

"Start of Turn: During this step... Then, the overlord player draws one card, and he may play any number of Overlord cards that specifically (emphasis mine) state they may be played "at the start of your turn.""

 

The specifically in there meant to me that no other card trigger condition mattered during that phase. However, I know cards trump rulebook is the general golden rule in these style games. It just seemed like the one time you can't use that card.



#4 Steve-O

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 12:23 PM

There are three distinct parts of a player turn to be familiar with - "start of turn", "during (your) turn" and "end of turn."

 

For the Overlord, "start of turn" encompasses everything he does before he activates his first monster.  Effects that must be used "at the start of the Overlord's turn" may be used at any time up until that point.

 

"End of turn" is after the Overlord has finished activating his monsters and doing anything else "during his turn."  He basically announces when "end of turn" begins by playing an effect that must be used "at the end of his turn."

 

"During the Overlord's turn" is everything in between "start" and "end."  So, an effect that the Overlord must play "during his turn" is required to be used AFTER "start of turn" is over and BEFORE "end of turn" begins.  FFG has clarified in the past that "during your turn" effects must be in between these two other phases.

 

Hopefully that's all clear.

 

Now, having said all that, I agree with PWB that the use of Dark Fortune in this case is legal.  Dark Fortune does not have any conditions on "start," "during" or "end" of turn, therefore it may indeed be used in any of the three.  Provided the listed trigger of dice being rolled has been fulfilled.



#5 sergeant shu

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 12:56 PM

Thanks. Much appreciated. Like I said, I think the word "specifically" tripped me up. Since dark fortune didn't have the "at the start of your turn" text, I assumed the specifically in the rule book ruled it out from being played. I guess I was wrong.

 

On a complete tangent, how do you try to stay consistent with rolling back turns when mistakes are made (or rules were misunderstood). I am the one who owns all the games so I tend to be the one making the rules calls but I invariably will get someone mad at me if I rule against them or if I've made a mistake. My goal is to try to lighten the tone so we enjoy the journey rather than just winning but I was curious if anyone had any good tips.



#6 PlainWhiteBread

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 10:20 PM

Thanks. Much appreciated. Like I said, I think the word "specifically" tripped me up. Since dark fortune didn't have the "at the start of your turn" text, I assumed the specifically in the rule book ruled it out from being played. I guess I was wrong.

 

On a complete tangent, how do you try to stay consistent with rolling back turns when mistakes are made (or rules were misunderstood). I am the one who owns all the games so I tend to be the one making the rules calls but I invariably will get someone mad at me if I rule against them or if I've made a mistake. My goal is to try to lighten the tone so we enjoy the journey rather than just winning but I was curious if anyone had any good tips.

When we play, our group has a general consensus that moves may be recalled as long as no new information has been introduced as a result of the action taken.

For example: The OL cannot roll back his turn to play Words of Misery (a card used 'at the start of the OL turn') after they have already moved/attacked with their monsters.

Or a Knight hero cannot roll back his turn to use the 'Advance' skill, realizing it only after another hero has attacked the monster he could have attacked using the skill.


Edited by PlainWhiteBread, 18 January 2014 - 10:23 PM.

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#7 rfisha

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 05:10 AM

 

Thanks. Much appreciated. Like I said, I think the word "specifically" tripped me up. Since dark fortune didn't have the "at the start of your turn" text, I assumed the specifically in the rule book ruled it out from being played. I guess I was wrong.

 

On a complete tangent, how do you try to stay consistent with rolling back turns when mistakes are made (or rules were misunderstood). I am the one who owns all the games so I tend to be the one making the rules calls but I invariably will get someone mad at me if I rule against them or if I've made a mistake. My goal is to try to lighten the tone so we enjoy the journey rather than just winning but I was curious if anyone had any good tips.

When we play, our group has a general consensus that moves may be recalled as long as no new information has been introduced as a result of the action taken.

For example: The OL cannot roll back his turn to play Words of Misery (a card used 'at the start of the OL turn') after they have already moved/attacked with their monsters.

Or a Knight hero cannot roll back his turn to use the 'Advance' skill, realizing it only after another hero has attacked the monster he could have attacked using the skill.

 

We play pretty much the same.  If the OL is having a hard time, we may let him/her off if he/she forgets to draw a card or reinforce :)


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