Jump to content



Photo

Lacking Lictors


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 Calgor Grim

Calgor Grim

    Member

  • Members
  • 449 posts

Posted 13 January 2014 - 04:01 AM

I was reading over the rules and stats for Lictors (Mark of the Xenos P37) and am finding their statline somewhat underwhelming. For a start, their enormous size is practically negating their concealment bonus and their bonus to dodge incoming fire. This makes it rather pointless or less effective surely? Only with its scales does it give it a 50/50 chance of actually hiding which again seems lacking for what should be excellent hunters.

Am I clearly missing something for these guys? I know the stats represent an Elite tier enemy and all but these seem a bit weak. I am looking to upgrade one to a Master level opponent. These numbers leave a lot to make up for.


Edited by Calgor Grim, 13 January 2014 - 06:08 AM.

Loyal Missionary Father Grim of the Kingston 293rd Storm Troopers


#2 bogi_khaosa

bogi_khaosa

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,105 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 09:07 AM

Concealment is an Opposed Test, so it's not a 50%.

 

As for a Master Lictor (such as Deathleaper?), look at the big bad in, goddamn it, what's the adventure called? The Space Hulk one. He's a butcher.


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 14 January 2014 - 09:07 AM.


#3 Kshatriya

Kshatriya

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,686 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 10:20 AM

I used a couple of lictors to very good effect on one mission. The players were 1 mission in from chargen but as you know that doesn't mean much for Space Marines. The key was not playing fair. I punched through walls to get them. I attacked through the roof of the train they were on. There were gaunts and sometimes warriors around that were drawing the fire and during that time the lictor would get behind the line and skewer someone in the back. Whenever I started to take fire, I dove into the nearest air vent or Ran and broke LOS and stealthed again.

 

Personally I would house rule that their size doesn't affect their concealment test, just like an Astartes with the Black Carapace doesn't receive the maluses of being Hulking (+10 to hit), just the bonuses (AB effectively +1 for movement). 



#4 bogi_khaosa

bogi_khaosa

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,105 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 04:52 PM

Wait. They have Unnatural Agility, which will boost Concealment up further.



#5 Kshatriya

Kshatriya

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,686 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 06:40 PM

And Dodge.



#6 Calgor Grim

Calgor Grim

    Member

  • Members
  • 449 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 06:57 PM

When I say 50% thats a 50% chance of them passing it themselves! Success is another issue entirely when someone is looking around for one. 

 

Basically I'm sending the group into a massive space station. It's heavily populated as its on a major trade route but it's suspected that there are Tyranid units loose in some of the lesser used areas. Their problems will be areas of the station in disrepair, trying to complete their assignment without letting the entire station know their mission, the station master being uncooperative etc. So hiding out there on the station, biding their time as the hive mind uses insurgent tactics, will be a single boss Lictor and a few Genestealers. I'm already using a Broodlord as one Master but I want the Lictor as a second to be a permanent shadow. A single key thing that appears in the corner of your eye. I want paranoia to make them cautious of every shadow.

 

How, considering the current rules, would you make a Lictor Master level and keep it competitive against approx 3/4 deathwatch marines but without being a whitewash? I might indeed need to consider the house rule amendment, since otherwise that +20 to shoot them entirely cancels out any evasion bonuses they get. Otherwise, to make it more of a master level since I havent got the book, do the reckon it might be a little overpowered to add to its number of wounds, perhaps some level of regeneration? I'm looking for some interesting ideas and I'm drawing blanks on Tyranids.

Also, Space Hulk Adventure, you mean this one?

http://store.fantasy...ls.cfm?SKU=DW14


Edited by Calgor Grim, 14 January 2014 - 06:58 PM.

Loyal Missionary Father Grim of the Kingston 293rd Storm Troopers


#7 bogi_khaosa

bogi_khaosa

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,105 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 11:36 PM

When I say 50% thats a 50% chance of them passing it themselves! Success is another issue entirely when someone is looking around for one. 

 

EDIT: lol. Ah, editors. I just noticed that the Lictor is listed as having Size of mboth Hulking AND Enormous! I'm going to assume it's Hulking.

 

It doesn't matter. It's always an Opposed Test, and the opponent has a -30 due to the Lictor's special rule. Even if the opponent succeeds, he has to beat the Lictor's Degrees of Success, which have +2 added to them because the Lictor has Unnatural Agility x2.

 

Let's see, hmmm... A Lictor vs. a Space Marine with autosenses and Heightened Senses. Bog standard space marine has, say, Per of 40 and Awareness +0.

 

Lictor Ag40 Unnatural Agility (x2), Size Hulking. Concealment +20. So that's 40 + 20 = 60 -10 = a standard 50% chance BUT he gets 2 extra DoS on a success. (Also he gets another +10 if he's motionless but let's say he's moving around.). He has a 50% of succeeding and will get 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6 Degrees of Success.

 

Space Marine 40 + 10 (autosenses) + 10 (Heightened Senses) = 60 - 30 for Chameleonic Scales = 30%. He has a 30% chance of succeeding and will get 0, 1, or 2 Degrees of Success.

 

Tthe only way the Lictor won't win is if it fails and the marine succeeds (because the SM cannot beat the Lictor's Degrees of Success, no matter what the Lictor rolls, as long as it's 50 or less). The chance of which is... 50 x .3 = 15%. (BTW if the Lictor is motionless this becomes 40 x .3 = 12%.)

 

EDIT: Yeah, Ark of Lost Souls. The beasty in there has a number of Dodge/Parry Tests equal to its Agility Bonus, which I think is 10.

 

EDIT2. By eyeball math, I think that the highest possible Marine chance to succeed (Per 75 + Awareness +20 + Heightened Senses + Autosenses = 115 - 30 from Chameleonic Scales = 85%) will beat the Lictor only slightly more than half the time. If the Marine and Lictor both roll 50, Super Perceptive Marine will just barely win (by 1 Degree of Success).


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 15 January 2014 - 12:56 AM.


#8 Calgor Grim

Calgor Grim

    Member

  • Members
  • 449 posts

Posted 15 January 2014 - 01:59 AM

Will the Chameleonic Scales special rule cancel out the marine auto senses? It describes them as blocking against things like IR or UV etc. Would that cover their senses?


Loyal Missionary Father Grim of the Kingston 293rd Storm Troopers


#9 bogi_khaosa

bogi_khaosa

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,105 posts

Posted 15 January 2014 - 09:30 AM

Will the Chameleonic Scales special rule cancel out the marine auto senses? It describes them as blocking against things like IR or UV etc. Would that cover their senses?

 

I hadn't thought about that, but in any case its -30 penalty will more than offset the +10.

 

Like I said, a standard Marine only has a 15% to spot the Lictor, lower if the Lictor doesn't move or is going through dense foliage or whatever.

 

He's much more likely to hear it than to see it.

 

BTW here's what you want to do with Lictors.

 

1) attack

2) assassin strike

3) use Concealment


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 15 January 2014 - 09:38 AM.


#10 Gurkhal

Gurkhal

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,058 posts

Posted 15 January 2014 - 09:55 AM

Good thread, for I have a devious plan to use Lictors against my players. :D



#11 bogi_khaosa

bogi_khaosa

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,105 posts

Posted 15 January 2014 - 10:29 AM

Anyway, Lictors are glass cannons. They're not Warriors. They're supposed to be lurking in the shadows and attacking from behind, not engaging in protracted battles.






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS