Jump to content



Photo

Wishlist for future companion supplement


  • Please log in to reply
149 replies to this topic

#41 Tom Cruise

Tom Cruise

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,214 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 06:56 AM

Splitting aliens/abhumans/etc into their own book also means the systems that support them can be developed in a lot more depth than they would being crammed into another book.


  • Tenebrae, svstrauser and Ghaundan like this

#42 svstrauser

svstrauser

    Member

  • Members
  • 251 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 07:13 AM

As usual I'm trying to jump in the bus while it's already running with a bomb strapped to it, but just to make sure, the current discussion is regarding including Xenos / Abhumans / other heretic offences to the sanctity of the human genome in a source book, and whether it should or not be a priority, right?

If so, I very much agree that it's time to have Eldars as playable race, specially considering that we currently are in a very strange position of having playable Deldars, but not normal Eldars.

I wouldn't think it would fit in the first source book for the game, though.

If I might offer a suggestion, I'd go with, in this order:
 

  1. Inquisitor's Handbook 2.0, without aliens, but with some taste of abhumans, just to make us want more;
  2. Adversaries (with a pretty faux-latin title);
  3. A sector gazetteer - a type of source book I believe DH really could use;
  4. Hereticus;
  5. Xenos - maybe with rules for playing Xenos, what do you think?
  6. Malleus;
  7. A full-scale Eldar source book;

What do you think?


There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

 


#43 segara82

segara82

    Member

  • Members
  • 536 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 09:30 AM

@Cymbel: Well shave my nuts and call me Skippy, i knew i forgot something! (Bonus points if you name the movie i just quoted)

I DO own a pdf of HotE but did not think about that chapter. And from personal experience since in the 90's when the Arsenal 2060 allowed the shadowrunners to build their own guns i am not exactly a big fan of the design-your-own-supergun chapter/option. Sooner or later one player IS going to abuse it.

 

@Ghaundan: Sadly you are right. I have in over 17 years of playing never seen a real Elf-player.


Courage is the mastery of fear - not the absence of fear


#44 GauntZero

GauntZero

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,104 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 09:38 AM

As usual I'm trying to jump in the bus while it's already running with a bomb strapped to it, but just to make sure, the current discussion is regarding including Xenos / Abhumans / other heretic offences to the sanctity of the human genome in a source book, and whether it should or not be a priority, right?If so, I very much agree that it's time to have Eldars as playable race, specially considering that we currently are in a very strange position of having playable Deldars, but not normal Eldars.I wouldn't think it would fit in the first source book for the game, though.If I might offer a suggestion, I'd go with, in this order: 

  • Inquisitor's Handbook 2.0, without aliens, but with some taste of abhumans, just to make us want more;
  • Adversaries (with a pretty faux-latin title);
  • A sector gazetteer - a type of source book I believe DH really could use;
  • Hereticus;
  • Xenos - maybe with rules for playing Xenos, what do you think?
  • Malleus;
  • A full-scale Eldar source book;
What do you think?

Add the following and its perfect:
- adepta supplement (administratum, mechanicus, arbites, telepathica)
- radicals handbook second edition (just love this one)
- supplement about nobility, cartells and diplomacy

I just love the idea of an own eldar suplement for DH.
Something like "Treacherous allies"
-
  • svstrauser likes this

Respect your brothers and you will also be respected.


#45 svstrauser

svstrauser

    Member

  • Members
  • 251 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 09:44 AM

 

As usual I'm trying to jump in the bus while it's already running with a bomb strapped to it, but just to make sure, the current discussion is regarding including Xenos / Abhumans / other heretic offences to the sanctity of the human genome in a source book, and whether it should or not be a priority, right?If so, I very much agree that it's time to have Eldars as playable race, specially considering that we currently are in a very strange position of having playable Deldars, but not normal Eldars.I wouldn't think it would fit in the first source book for the game, though.If I might offer a suggestion, I'd go with, in this order: 

  • Inquisitor's Handbook 2.0, without aliens, but with some taste of abhumans, just to make us want more;
  • Adversaries (with a pretty faux-latin title);
  • A sector gazetteer - a type of source book I believe DH really could use;
  • Hereticus;
  • Xenos - maybe with rules for playing Xenos, what do you think?
  • Malleus;
  • A full-scale Eldar source book;
What do you think?

Add the following and its perfect:
- adepta supplement (administratum, mechanicus, arbites, telepathica)
- radicals handbook second edition (just love this one)
- supplement about nobility, cartells and diplomacy

I just love the idea of an own eldar suplement for DH.
Something like "Treacherous allies"
-

 

Ok, let me just get my wallet...


There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

 


#46 svstrauser

svstrauser

    Member

  • Members
  • 251 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 09:46 AM

By the way, let me make it clear I wouldn't actually mind having Eldars as a chapter in a Xenos source book, but I believe they deserve a book of their own.


  • segara82, yggZ, Adeptus-B and 1 other like this

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

 


#47 Cymbel

Cymbel

    Member

  • Members
  • 735 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 12:06 PM

40k is a somewhat intolerant setting for other races, elfdar stick out too easily if their own arrogance didn't give them away, ogryn are too dumb for an investigation game. Ratlings MIGHT work, but what do they bring? The other abhumans all stick out in their own way, Kroot won't work, I could never see an Ork working either. RTs can break the rules a bit because they spend most of their time out of the imperium, while acolytes are the exact opposite. MAYBE in a future book they can have an addon like Grey Knights did for Malleus. But for the most important book? The Inquisitor's Handbook of DH2? No thanks. Look at how much skimpier Into the Storm is compared to the Inquisitor's Handbook, it tried to do too much and ended up spread too shin, while the Handbook is thick and packed full.



#48 Tenebrae

Tenebrae

    Member

  • Members
  • 988 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 12:25 PM

And from personal experience since in the 90's when the Arsenal 2060 allowed the shadowrunners to build their own guns i am not exactly a big fan of the design-your-own-supergun chapter/option. Sooner or later one player IS going to abuse it.

...and by this you mean the Cannon Companion copyrighted in 2000, ofcourse?

#49 svstrauser

svstrauser

    Member

  • Members
  • 251 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 12:33 PM

40k is a somewhat intolerant setting for other races, elfdar stick out too easily if their own arrogance didn't give them away, ogryn are too dumb for an investigation game. Ratlings MIGHT work, but what do they bring? The other abhumans all stick out in their own way, Kroot won't work, I could never see an Ork working either. RTs can break the rules a bit because they spend most of their time out of the imperium, while acolytes are the exact opposite. MAYBE in a future book they can have an addon like Grey Knights did for Malleus. But for the most important book? The Inquisitor's Handbook of DH2? No thanks. Look at how much skimpier Into the Storm is compared to the Inquisitor's Handbook, it tried to do too much and ended up spread too shin, while the Handbook is thick and packed full.

Although I believe that there is a place for aliens and abhumans in a DH game (not in not most games and, ironically, seeing as how I defend it so much, not in most of my games), I heartily agree with your second point. 

The Imperial Handbook is a much better book than Into the Storm, and the new one should follow its footsteps.


There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

 


#50 Radwraith

Radwraith

    Member

  • Members
  • 817 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 01:05 PM

Can't say I agree with this. Both were very useful in their own right and I found both to be indispensable to the games I ran! I do agree that the first supplement should be more geared toward useful add-ons for everyone rather than Niche products like xenos! Besides; I think playable Xenos more belong in the realm of Rogue trader or perhaps only war than in DH. The only thing is they work better when used independently of humans entirely! I've seen numerous threads over the years for playing an Orcish or DE RT game.I never did understand why ffg never went with Tau or Eldar game supplements since they would seem to be the most "playable" of the Xenos races in 40k. I would suspect this could be achieved in a "Xeno-compendius" but that would be a large supplement and would more properly belong in RT. (Or as we've seen before game 6  :huh: )



#51 GauntZero

GauntZero

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,104 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 01:07 PM

40k is a somewhat intolerant setting for other races, elfdar stick out too easily if their own arrogance didn't give them away, ogryn are too dumb for an investigation game. Ratlings MIGHT work, but what do they bring? The other abhumans all stick out in their own way, Kroot won't work, I could never see an Ork working either. RTs can break the rules a bit because they spend most of their time out of the imperium, while acolytes are the exact opposite. MAYBE in a future book they can have an addon like Grey Knights did for Malleus. But for the most important book? The Inquisitor's Handbook of DH2? No thanks. Look at how much skimpier Into the Storm is compared to the Inquisitor's Handbook, it tried to do too much and ended up spread too shin, while the Handbook is thick and packed full.

 

Eldar are the ones who really could blend into imperial society more easily if they really want to.

 

Their body shape and even faces are similar to humans. On most planets they could easily be considered as some off-worlder-humans, if they use a little make-up and corretly chosen clothes.

 

The Imperium is so big, that the "classical human" does not exist. Just think about comparing a bulky feral worlder to a thin pale void born.

 

I think ther eis even a novel where blending in of an eldar happens without too many problems.

 

Of course, other inquisitors or people with xenos knowledge would know. But such are rare and can be avoided.


Respect your brothers and you will also be respected.


#52 GauntZero

GauntZero

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,104 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 01:09 PM

Can't say I agree with this. Both were very useful in their own right and I found both to be indispensable to the games I ran! I do agree that the first supplement should be more geared toward useful add-ons for everyone rather than Niche products like xenos! Besides; I think playable Xenos more belong in the realm of Rogue trader or perhaps only war than in DH. The only thing is they work better when used independently of humans entirely! I've seen numerous threads over the years for playing an Orcish or DE RT game.I never did understand why ffg never went with Tau or Eldar game supplements since they would seem to be the most "playable" of the Xenos races in 40k. I would suspect this could be achieved in a "Xeno-compendius" but that would be a large supplement and would more properly belong in RT. (Or as we've seen before game 6  :huh: )

 

If they saved it for DH2, that would be a nice thing.

They would be the 2 kinds of xenos that could somehow be integrated into (temporary) inquisitorial service.

Tau would be harder to disguise though than eldar.

Eldar would be perfect.


  • svstrauser likes this

Respect your brothers and you will also be respected.


#53 Cymbel

Cymbel

    Member

  • Members
  • 735 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 01:33 PM

What I meant is that the IH provided more character generation options, it provided alternate careers, which ItS did too. But where ItS lost it's focus was in trying to cover too much ground, but especially with the Xenos rules, while IH kept it simpler, 1 new career, new rules for skills, but most importanlty with gear. While ItS is a great book and is a must buy for RT players, compared to the wonderful gear selection for all kinds of PCs and NPCs, organized by type of world and bringing variety.

 

So to summarize, ItS is great and a must have, but viewed 1 on 1 with IH as the first supplement for a line, it lacks focus.

 

Gaunt Zero, I still find it hard to believe temperament of most xenos to work with the imperium (besides the mercenary kroot, but why bother?), and while elfdar may be able to pass for human on occasion, the risks of discovery are too great, not to mention the myriad of ways in which they can give themselves up. Ears, soulstones, grace, shape (though some pictures show them being similar to humans, for others the difference is pretty huge), etc.

 

If the options for Eldar or other Xenos PCs must exist, it would work better in a book like a Radical's handbook, which I felt sort of lacking in some ways. But I am open to being sold on the idea...maybe with an ascension level game it could work properly...


  • segara82 likes this

#54 Elior

Elior

    Member

  • Members
  • 503 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 01:38 PM

If anything, a Xenos supplement would sell pretty darn well. Besides, I would buy it just for the good read.


  • svstrauser likes this

#55 GauntZero

GauntZero

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,104 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 02:41 PM

And eldar would offer a really deep culture to explore.

I agree on a whole eldar supplement, including their culture, NPC stats and the option to play an eldar pathfinder.

Add an eldar related adventure and its perfect.
  • svstrauser likes this

Respect your brothers and you will also be respected.


#56 Adeptus-B

Adeptus-B

    Part-Time Super Villian

  • Members
  • 1,875 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 03:43 PM


Yes, you can play elves in other games. Do you know how they're played as? Agile humans with pointy ears and an extra digit in the "age" section of their character sheet.

 

Aye, there's the rub. 'Demihumans' in fantasy games are almost always depicted as humans with a bonus to one or two attributes, and personalities that revolve around one human personality trait. Overcoming that unfortunate 'tradition' would indeed pose a challenge...



#57 Adeptus-B

Adeptus-B

    Part-Time Super Villian

  • Members
  • 1,875 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 03:47 PM

40k is a somewhat intolerant setting for other races...

 

And the award for Understatement of the Year goes to... :lol:


Edited by Adeptus-B, 14 January 2014 - 03:47 PM.

  • Radwraith, svstrauser, Elior and 1 other like this

#58 Cymbel

Cymbel

    Member

  • Members
  • 735 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 03:57 PM

But the understatement makes it funnier :3


  • svstrauser likes this

#59 Tenebrae

Tenebrae

    Member

  • Members
  • 988 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 04:13 PM

The Imperial Handbook is a much better book than Into the Storm, and the new one should follow its footsteps.

Can't really say I agree with this.

 

What I meant is that the IH provided more character generation options, it provided alternate careers, which ItS did too. But where ItS lost it's focus was in trying to cover too much ground, but especially with the Xenos rules, while IH kept it simpler, 1 new career, new rules for skills, but most importanlty with gear. While ItS is a great book and is a must buy for RT players, compared to the wonderful gear selection for all kinds of PCs and NPCs, organized by type of world and bringing variety.

 

So to summarize, ItS is great and a must have, but viewed 1 on 1 with IH as the first supplement for a line, it lacks focus.

Maybe closer to my experience, but even this I cannot agree with.

 

I don't feel that the IH was particularly well organized, but the absolute killer was the lack of indexing. I know it seems like a minor complaint, but in all seriousness, it has meant that I read the IH and then stuffed it on a shelf. I can't access the information therein during play - lack of indexing means you have to search for things.

Yes, the pdf probably made this simpler, but for a paper publication, it's a doorstop for all the use I had of it.

 

Furthermore, I consider the "companion books" (IH, ItS, and that lot) to be spill over from the core book, cut due to page count or whatever. So the focus aspect is really secondary to me.

 

Finally there's the one career introduced in IH. I'm sorry, but it was a mess. It really was. The revision in BoM was long overdue. Ofcourse, that version was probably not terribly well balanced, but I really don't see how it could have been and still stay true to the source material. It wasn't the revision I was hoping for, but almost anything would be better than the mess in IH.



#60 Cymbel

Cymbel

    Member

  • Members
  • 735 posts

Posted 14 January 2014 - 04:30 PM

Yeah, the lack of a good index harmed it, but I loved the weapons table in the back

 

Whether or not you like the Sororitas career (I personally find it hard to play with most groups), I do like the tighter focus on what the book covers. It is a character expansion book, homeworlds and backgrounds, new alt ranks and gear for every kind of PC and common locations they find themselves in, as well as expansions on skills.

 

While ItS tried to cover too much it felt like in comparison, doing everything the IH did, then more, new ship parts, new powers, new vehicle rules, etc. And that is before the well over 30 pages on xenos careers, generation, equipment, etc.

 

Don't get me wrong, RT is a great game for xenos to actually work with the players, the issue is more they would be better served by an earlier "Radical's Handbook" of RT, not as useful a book for all, very useful for some.






© 2013 Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc. Fantasy Flight Games and the FFG logo are ® of Fantasy Flight Publishing, Inc.  All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Contact | User Support | Rules Questions | Help | RSS