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Wishlist for future companion supplement


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#21 Cymbel

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 05:12 AM

Sometimes PCs can't have their custom gear, like my Arbites with her customized handcannon, a techie with their favorite laspistol, the guardsman or merc with their OPERATOR's autogun. Just like though my Arbites may own carapace, they can't always wear the full suit. It can be fun to be forced to use the "crap" gear because whatever reason there may be to force the situation.

 

As well as the classic, "I want to make mooks, they can't be as well armed as the PCs nor give the PCs good weapons after being killed" reason.



#22 Tenebrae

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 05:24 AM

Aside from agreeing with AtoMaki, here's a few other thoughts.

 

I want to be able to have large groups on inferior opponents. For preference, not just with poor stats, but with objectively inferior equipment as well. Could I just use more easily available equipment? Yes, but sometimes it just doesn't get the point across.

 

In particular, I want to be able to to introduce vapid aristocrats with gear that is mechanically worthless but in-game valuable. One example could be a gilded, gem encrusted dueling pistol with inaccurate (after all, the point of the duel is not to kill your opponent but to prove your courage/his cowardice) and only a single shot. A toy which costs more than many acolytes see in a year but which is mechanically worthless.

 

And sometimes I want to be able to dump acolytes on a feudal world, with no high tech gear, possibly even with orders to blend in. Which means primitive weapons only, and no fancy explosive quarrels either.

 

Avaliability is as much a balancing factor as anything else. Crappy gear has high availability. There, no need to introduce needless imbalance. 

..and I personally think this is an extremely poor argument. In an industrial society, guns are going to be orders of magnitude more available than eg. crossbows, not because crossbows are an objectively better weapon, but exactly because thy are inferior. The idea that more easily available means worse is ridiculous.

Factories and mass-production means that the most available option should be the most effective, in the sense of price per effect, or more colloquially "most bang for the buck".

Even the Imperium of Man impliments this (to some degree), by mass producing cheap lasguns for cheap soldiers and more expensive bolters for more expensive superhuman genetically modified beakies.

 

Which is also why I oppose the mixing of availability and price which is the unfortunate effect of the new influence system. That was a bad system in RT, but there it made some sort of sense that "You can afford it, question is only if it's available."


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#23 Cymbel

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 05:49 AM

Tenebrae, on the noble aspect, a PC of mine got challenged by a noble who said they could shoot better than me, I took them up on the offer and wagered my gun. He accepted and a lot of tense rolls later, I won. But several days later I got a package delivered to me, inside was an ornate Howdah "Flametongue" Pistol. For those who don't know a 2 shot gun firing 1d10+6 but primitive (double armor, not damage cap) and exotic ammo (20 thrones a shot). So a perfect example of an expensive but mechanically useless gun, nice as a token though.

 

And our PCs were once on a feudal world where we had to blend in, which limited us for a while (except for the moritat).


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#24 GauntZero

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 07:06 AM

Why not just take the poor versions of weapons for mooks ?

Edited by GauntZero, 13 January 2014 - 07:06 AM.

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#25 Ghaundan

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 07:30 AM

Personally, don't want xenos or abhumans. Especially not ogryns after having to deal with one in Only War as a Game Master. When you need a heavy bolter to pose any sort of threat (at least until true grit comes into play) it just gets ridiculous and RP wise increadibly boring as ogryns make orks seem like complex individuals. 

More...everything. I want a player handbook, even though I'm GM'ing. More stuff for character creation, planets, backgrounds, roles. The more the merrier. This part of the book has to be balanced with previous stuff. For reasons Adeptus-B mentions. Honestly, I don't care if they expand on the fluff but they shouldn't have power creep in character generation. 

More items, both gear and weapons. There might be a bit of power creep here, as long as those are designed for higher ranking acolytes. More variants of the items already in the core book is also welcome as it gives the players a wide selection to pick from. Especially items/gear and not just weapons and armour. How to use influence in a wider variety of narrative manners would also be helpful. They can summon powerful NPC's, but what if they don't want to play a different character and simply call in a small squad of npc's to help them do the grunt work? Or informants!

More elite advances. I love the idea but the ones in the core rulebook are so boring or silly that I've banned my players from using them outright. Then again certain talents are also barred from use. Like Adamantine Faith and Infused Knowledge. But more talents would be great.

 

PS: When it comes to inferior gear etc: I love when players go for a certain style in their characters. Maybe a gun slinger, or a lasnut. It doesn't matter. But if they want to minmax, then so will I.

Just make The Inquisitors Handbook 2.0.


Edited by Ghaundan, 13 January 2014 - 07:39 AM.

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#26 Tenebrae

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 07:32 AM

Why not just take the poor versions of weapons for mooks ?

Works... sometimes. I have issues with the quality system as well, but mostly minor niggles and I realise that fixing them would complicated matters more than the Dev team seems to like.



#27 Tenebrae

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 07:33 AM

Just make The Inquisitors Handbook 2.0.

...but with an index, right?


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#28 segara82

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 07:36 AM

Because poor versions only gain Unreliable but otherwise can do everything the original can. If i want to display a downtrodden person/group with inferior equipment an unreliable autogun is just not going to cut it (still autofires 10 shots and can rip the PCs apart) but a really piss-poor excuse of an autogun barely capable of firing up to 5 bullets in full-auto. Not a shiny/muddy combat shotgun but a cobbled together Meat Hammer. I put a lot of emphasis in my groups on the locale, including specific weapons, titles, gangs, sports, sport teams and such. Makes it feel more alive.
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#29 Ghaundan

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 07:44 AM

 

Just make The Inquisitors Handbook 2.0.

...but with an index, right?

 

 

A radical i see?! An index would be nice, yeah. That god I have it hardback and pdf. SEARCH BUTTON I LOVE YOU! <3

oh, and have all the stat tables in the back! 



#30 Tenebrae

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 07:51 AM

oh, and have all the stat tables in the back!

..with page references to where the description can be found, please.
Otherwise it'll be as much of a doorstop to me as the old IH.
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#31 Ghaundan

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 10:04 AM

 

oh, and have all the stat tables in the back!

..with page references to where the description can be found, please.
Otherwise it'll be as much of a doorstop to me as the old IH.

 

Agreed! 110%. I LOVE weapons with a minor extra text based penalty or benefit but i kinda want it to be easy to reference said rule when a player asks.


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#32 Adeptus-B

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 12:30 PM

Personally, don't want xenos or abhumans. Especially not ogryns after having to deal with one in Only War as a Game Master. When you need a heavy bolter to pose any sort of threat (at least until true grit comes into play) it just gets ridiculous and RP wise increadibly boring as ogryns make orks seem like complex individuals. 

 

I agree with your other suggestions, but I think abhumans are long overdue in DH. Frankly I'm shocked that it took 'til Only War for abhumans to make an appearance in WH40KRP (excepting the Hive Mutant background from The Radical's Handbook, which is kinda but not really an abhuman). Seriously, playable xenos were a thing long before playable abhumans? What sense does that make? :blink:

 

I would want DH abhumans to be handled better than they were in OW, however. In OW, abhumans are fixed 'careers' more than races, and they can't really take any career path other than a narrow, stereotypical interpretation of their most common role.


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#33 Cymbel

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 02:28 PM

But THEN, Felinids! Catgirl Inquisitors! Madness reigning!

 

Because poor versions only gain Unreliable but otherwise can do everything the original can. If i want to display a downtrodden person/group with inferior equipment an unreliable autogun is just not going to cut it (still autofires 10 shots and can rip the PCs apart) but a really piss-poor excuse of an autogun barely capable of firing up to 5 bullets in full-auto. Not a shiny/muddy combat shotgun but a cobbled together Meat Hammer. I put a lot of emphasis in my groups on the locale, including specific weapons, titles, gangs, sports, sport teams and such. Makes it feel more alive.

 

The OW Hammer of the Emperor Variant rules help with this and with a good book full of neat items and then this on top it for more variety? :)

 


PS: When it comes to inferior gear etc: I love when players go for a certain style in their characters. Maybe a gun slinger, or a lasnut. It doesn't matter. But if they want to minmax, then so will I.

Just make The Inquisitors Handbook 2.0.

 

 

 

My Arbites uses pretty much exclusively western guns, revolvers, pump action, lever action, etc and disdains full and semi auto weapons.


Edited by Cymbel, 13 January 2014 - 02:28 PM.

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#34 GauntZero

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 11:25 PM

Personally, don't want xenos or abhumans. Especially not ogryns after having to deal with one in Only War as a Game Master. When you need a heavy bolter to pose any sort of threat (at least until true grit comes into play) it just gets ridiculous and RP wise increadibly boring as ogryns make orks seem like complex individuals.

 I agree with your other suggestions, but I think abhumans are long overdue in DH. Frankly I'm shocked that it took 'til Only War for abhumans to make an appearance in WH40KRP (excepting the Hive Mutant background from The Radical's Handbook, which is kinda but not really an abhuman). Seriously, playable xenos were a thing long before playable abhumans? What sense does that make? :blink: I would want DH abhumans to be handled better than they were in OW, however. In OW, abhumans are fixed 'careers' more than races, and they can't really take any career path other than a narrow, stereotypical interpretation of their most common role.

I think it is more than time for abhumand AND Xenos to be playable in DH.

The Ordo Xenos could be great for such opportunities to introduce sanctioned xenos.

The eldar have such a deep and rich culture, that it would be great to have a whole supplement just dedicated to them, including. options for playable eldar for dh (pathfinders / rangers could make sense).
The other race that might be integrated are the tau. Also rather deep and rich, they share with the eldar, that they are not really looking like a human, but they can be made to blend in wth some effort in disguise (or helmets ;) ). And even humans from different worlds differ in their appearance very much - the average imperial citizen probably wouldnt even recognize an eldar as xenos at all, if he tries to behave subtle.

As abhumans, ogryns might not quite be to the inquisition standards ;) they might be good for very direct approaches, but for everything else, they are both too unsubtle and too incapable.
Ratlongs and perhaps squats are a different thing. They could blend in very well.

Therefore I would wish for those playable additional races:
- Eldar
- Tau
- Ratling
- Squat
- a unique xenos to the Askellon sector
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#35 Cymbel

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 11:46 PM

None of those until at least a while, humans need more focus for the new options before anything like that.


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#36 Ghaundan

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 03:05 AM

 

 

Personally, don't want xenos or abhumans. Especially not ogryns after having to deal with one in Only War as a Game Master. When you need a heavy bolter to pose any sort of threat (at least until true grit comes into play) it just gets ridiculous and RP wise increadibly boring as ogryns make orks seem like complex individuals.

 I agree with your other suggestions, but I think abhumans are long overdue in DH. Frankly I'm shocked that it took 'til Only War for abhumans to make an appearance in WH40KRP (excepting the Hive Mutant background from The Radical's Handbook, which is kinda but not really an abhuman). Seriously, playable xenos were a thing long before playable abhumans? What sense does that make? :blink: I would want DH abhumans to be handled better than they were in OW, however. In OW, abhumans are fixed 'careers' more than races, and they can't really take any career path other than a narrow, stereotypical interpretation of their most common role.

I think it is more than time for abhumand AND Xenos to be playable in DH.

The Ordo Xenos could be great for such opportunities to introduce sanctioned xenos.

The eldar have such a deep and rich culture, that it would be great to have a whole supplement just dedicated to them, including. options for playable eldar for dh (pathfinders / rangers could make sense).
The other race that might be integrated are the tau. Also rather deep and rich, they share with the eldar, that they are not really looking like a human, but they can be made to blend in wth some effort in disguise (or helmets ;) ). And even humans from different worlds differ in their appearance very much - the average imperial citizen probably wouldnt even recognize an eldar as xenos at all, if he tries to behave subtle.

As abhumans, ogryns might not quite be to the inquisition standards ;) they might be good for very direct approaches, but for everything else, they are both too unsubtle and too incapable.
Ratlongs and perhaps squats are a different thing. They could blend in very well.

Therefore I would wish for those playable additional races:
- Eldar
- Tau
- Ratling
- Squat
- a unique xenos to the Askellon sector

 

I'm not against people getting their xenos fix, far from it. Exept it would detract from time/pages spent on humans. I can't see eldar RP'ed properly though. A race who probably wouldn't sacrifice one of theirs to save/kill a planet with billions of humans in a cooperative investigation game?

I just wouldn't buy that supplement because it's not what I look for in Dark Heresy. Maybe others would and more power to them for it. But I can only speak for myself and I'd give it a pass. And the first supplement really should try to be a must have for every player group, not one specific one any one ordos. 


Edited by Ghaundan, 14 January 2014 - 04:54 AM.

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#37 GauntZero

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 06:01 AM

If you can play elves in other games - you also can play Eldar in 40k.
Yes, Eldar are very different than humans. But so are elves in most fantasy games - never the less they are playable.
And the inquisition is one of the few instances - besides rogue traders - who might sanction their use if needed.
An eldar might very well cooperate with the inquisition, and he would also sacrifice his life. IF it serves his own mysterious agenda.

It is time for some new stuff - and Xenos in DH would be a nice addition.

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#38 GauntZero

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 06:01 AM

None of those until at least a while, humans need more focus for the new options before anything like that.


There is no reason not to give both some love.

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#39 Tom Cruise

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 06:04 AM

The more pagecount devoted to one, the less the other can have.

 

I'd prefer to keep alternate racial options to a separate splat.


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#40 Ghaundan

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 06:40 AM

 

None of those until at least a while, humans need more focus for the new options before anything like that.


There is no reason not to give both some love.

 

Agreeing with Tom Cruise, there is a good reason. Page count. 

Yes, you can play elves in other games. Do you know how they're played as? Agile humans with pointy ears and an extra digit in the "age" section of their character sheet. And most of those games do now have the same level of xenophobia as 40k. A bit of racism, yes. Sanctioned would mean subtletly is ruined from day 1 as EVERYONE would know about them, most would hate them and pious would try to kill them. I dislike the xeno bit for alot of reaons, both gameplay wise, narrative wise and just plain roleplaying perspective. 


Maybe you have very different players then the ones I'm used to.

 

That an ordo xenos book or "Sanctioned xenos" book is relased, YES. By all means. I won't buy it but I wouldn't want to deprive others of it. But as a first supplement book? No. It should almost be a musthave for everyone.


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