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Wishlists for Heroes & Monsters Collections


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#21 fulvio67

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 06:38 AM

I am a loong time collector of FFG games and now i have hundreds of 1st edition monsters. I will probably get all the new retooled figures, but i think that this policy from FFG is not properly correct agains customers. I think that FFG MUST announce the list of the monsters that will be recast, allowing collectors at least to separate the monsters groups to be keept from those that must be thrown in the trashcan.

 

I want to remember to FFG that aging "players" (due mostly to lack of time) become slowly "collector", and also that aged collectors have generally more money than young "players". A wrong policy in reprinting of old games may make unhappy the richest buyers.



#22 griton

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 10:06 AM

I think that FFG MUST announce the list of the monsters that will be recast

FFG owes you nothing and MUST do only what they think is in their best interest as a financially responsible company. There's a very real chance that these monster/hero packs won't sell, or that costs might spike for some reason, making them prohibitively expensive. At that point, any "plans" they announced will be interpreted as a promise and they'll be seen as breaking that. It also gives them the flexibility to do what works and scrap or change what doesn't. This is why they don't announce anything until they are well into production with it and have almost everything hammered out. (You'll see the same behavior across the entire spectrum of the gaming industry) 

 

Nor do you owe them anything. If you don't like their practices, you don't have to support them. You've already got a lot of their stuff, and them producing new material isn't going to affect you other than your own psychology telling you that you should be upset for some reason.

 

They will balance the desires of their clients (us) with the market as a whole. They pay attention to market desires and also know (unlike many people on these and other forums) that those on various forums are a very small (albeit passionate) percentage of their buyers. They may be the most likely to buy everything, but my guess is that all of the money they get from everyone who commits to buying everything is still significantly less than all the money they get from everyone else who only buys a few things here and there.

 

Feel free to suggest what you'd like to see, and if enough people do so, (or if they think you have a well-reasoned, and respectful point), they may choose to do so. But thinking, and worse, acting, like FFG has some kind of obligation to you, or that they MUST do something for your benefit (or that of some small sector of other people like you) is naive and petulant.

 

 

Remember that they originally said that they had "no plans" to release any of the 1st edition stuff (but they didn't say they wouldn't ever, at least not in any official capacity that I can remember). This was probably because they felt like there were enough people with 1st edition out there that it wouldn't sell. (The reason most businesses don't plan on doing something is because they think it won't make them much money.) Eventually, I think they realized that 1st edition stuff was being sought out by A LOT more 2nd edition players than they initially expected, and realized that that there was a hole in the market that they could fill. But instead of just doing so in a way that didn't improve anything, they are giving people a reason to go straight to them instead of tracking down someone else by improving the sculpts, bringing the artwork into line with the new edition, and supplying new quests.

 

Personally, I'm glad to see it. I may never end up buying them (though I probably will eventually), but it's a sign that there's life in the franchise.

 

TL;DR: Plans change, deal with it. Stop acting like you control the company just because you've bought a bunch of their stuff before.


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#23 fulvio67

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 11:54 AM

You may eventually change the MUST with a soft "may" if You want, and i don't want to change nothing nor influence no one in the FFG planning. I only see a new approach in the planning of future Descent expansions that may displease to collectors. I don't know the actual market of boardgames, but i know very well the global market of OOP games, collecting them from 1978 up today and killing the value (not only economical) of an already published item is not the best choice of a game company to have long time customers satisfied.

Also, i only want an indicative statement, like "...all the set base monsters": this may save, in example, the troll and the golem from the trashcan

Is this ask too much?

Maybe i am "naive and petulant" because of my request of an answer to FFG, but now i have 200 miniatures collected in five years that does not worth the plastic with wich are done.

Edited by fulvio67, 17 January 2014 - 05:09 PM.


#24 mulletcheese

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 04:53 PM

I don't think the monster sets will be limited to just descent 1st edition creatures.

 

Didn't battlelore 2nd edition increase the scale to match descent? 

Given FFG's history of recycling miniatures I'd expect the battlelore figures to also be made available through these sets.



#25 fulvio67

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 05:04 PM

Battlelore 2nd edition has 20mm minis, descent figures are "25mm pure" minis, like old ral partha up to 1998. The pieces of the two games are not compatibles.

Edited by fulvio67, 17 January 2014 - 05:06 PM.


#26 PlainWhiteBread

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 07:52 PM

I wonder if they'll use this opportunity to "re-class" heroes.  I remember reading that some people didn't understand why certain heroes were certain archetypes.  Think Lyssa as a Mage and Ispher as a Healer were the two main ones, there might be more.

 

Maybe FFG can use this opportunity to shift some heroes around, as it stands right now there are 10 CK Mages, 9 CK Healers, 13 CK Scouts, and 16 CK Warriors.  Moving some Warriors into Healers (Maybe like Sir Valadir) could rebalance things.

 

Then again, maybe that's why Ispher is a Healer and Lyssa is a Mage... /shrug

 

Seeing Crypt Dragons and Demon Lords resculpted is going to be amazing!

One thing to note: The revamped Shiver has 10 health instead of 8, so it would seem that some rebalancing could come down the pipeline for other heroes -- A gray defense die for Eliam, anyone? lol -- and even some of the monsters, too.

I would have liked to see some rebalancing of classes, but Steve-O is (as usual) right on the money when it comes to the 'Blue' Healer class; 1E only had the three archetypes to choose from, and while we did get some pretty sweet 'utility' characters like Aurim, Andira Runehand and Jonas the Kind, rebalancing the other CK heroes to even out the disparity is tough. There's only one more mage in the CK than the healers, and a lot of the scouts are very much Thief/Archer/Nimble characters that aren't suited for healing. Red is mostly power-house heroes, without so much as anyone resembling a healer class.



#27 fulvio67

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 02:47 AM

 

I think that FFG MUST announce the list of the monsters that will be recast

FFG owes you nothing and MUST do only what they think is in their best interest as a financially responsible company. There's a very real chance that these monster/hero packs won't sell, or that costs might spike for some reason, making them prohibitively expensive. At that point, any "plans" they announced will be interpreted as a promise and they'll be seen as breaking that. It also gives them the flexibility to do what works and scrap or change what doesn't. This is why they don't announce anything until they are well into production with it and have almost everything hammered out. (You'll see the same behavior across the entire spectrum of the gaming industry)

Nor do you owe them anything. If you don't like their practices, you don't have to support them. You've already got a lot of their stuff, and them producing new material isn't going to affect you other than your own psychology telling you that you should be upset for some reason.

They will balance the desires of their clients (us) with the market as a whole. They pay attention to market desires and also know (unlike many people on these and other forums) that those on various forums are a very small (albeit passionate) percentage of their buyers. They may be the most likely to buy everything, but my guess is that all of the money they get from everyone who commits to buying everything is still significantly less than all the money they get from everyone else who only buys a few things here and there.

Feel free to suggest what you'd like to see, and if enough people do so, (or if they think you have a well-reasoned, and respectful point), they may choose to do so. But thinking, and worse, acting, like FFG has some kind of obligation to you, or that they MUST do something for your benefit (or that of some small sector of other people like you) is naive and petulant.


Remember that they originally said that they had "no plans" to release any of the 1st edition stuff (but they didn't say they wouldn't ever, at least not in any official capacity that I can remember). This was probably because they felt like there were enough people with 1st edition out there that it wouldn't sell. (The reason most businesses don't plan on doing something is because they think it won't make them much money.) Eventually, I think they realized that 1st edition stuff was being sought out by A LOT more 2nd edition players than they initially expected, and realized that that there was a hole in the market that they could fill. But instead of just doing so in a way that didn't improve anything, they are giving people a reason to go straight to them instead of tracking down someone else by improving the sculpts, bringing the artwork into line with the new edition, and supplying new quests.

Personally, I'm glad to see it. I may never end up buying them (though I probably will eventually), but it's a sign that there's life in the franchise.

TL;DR: Plans change, deal with it. Stop acting like you control the company just because you've bought a bunch of their stuff before.

One thing is not clear, dear Griton, in Your covertly offensive post: You are a customer or not?

Option 1 - You are a customer, as You declared in this post. In this case, who give You the right to speech for the FFG company, his choices and overall selling policies? A this point they seem to me that the "Stop acting like you control the company..." may easily be applied to You.

Option 2 - You are NOT a customer, but are in some manner tied to FFG (employee, consultant) In this case, You lied two times. First (personally) taking the mask of a customer, second (for the company) disproving the official promise that no 1st edition pieces would be reprinted and that a "plan" existed to do this.

 

Also i want to know how someone may "...thinking, and worse, acting, like FFG has some kind of obligation to you, or that they MUST do something for your benefit...". I may understand the "thinking", but which can be the (worse) "acting"? I want to remember You that a (true) customer has only two action that he may do: like Hamlet he may "buy or not to buy" and this end all the availables options.


Edited by fulvio67, 18 January 2014 - 07:02 AM.


#28 griton

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 11:52 AM

One thing is not clear, dear Griton, in Your covertly offensive post: You are a customer or not?

Option 1 - You are a customer, as You declared in this post. In this case, who give You the right to speech for the FFG company, his choices and overall selling policies? A this point they seem to me that the "Stop acting like you control the company..." may easily be applied to You.

 

Covertly Offensive? I pointed out that you were acting childish by declaring that FFG "MUST" (not should, not "this would be nice", but an all-caps declaration without option) do something you desire. You are welcome to be offended by someone calling out your behavior, and hopefully it's enough to keep that behavior from happening in the future.

 

I am a customer, and if you've followed this forum, I think you'd find proof of that.

 

I'm also not speaking for FFG at all. I'm speaking for the way the market works and how all companies only have financial responsibility to themselves, their shareholders, and their employees. This is most often done by producing a good product and having good customer service, which encourages consumers to give them money in exchange for products and/or services. It has absolutely nothing to do with FFG's policies. They may end up releasing a list of what they expect to do with these figures, but I'm not trying to dictate to them what choices they should make, only informing you how these things work.

 

You, and a lot of other people, like to think that you can throw around the "I've been a customer for years, and I've given you lots of my money so you MUST do what I say" line and expect that it is going to have more weight than providing a well-reasoned response. (Maybe you don't think it, but that's what you're posting so it's the only thing anyone can go on.) People also do the same thing to their favorite authors. "Stop watching TV and finish writing the next book!" It's a childish and selfish mentality that should be called out and stopped.

 

Also i want to know how someone may "...thinking, and worse, acting, like FFG has some kind of obligation to you, or that they MUST do something for your benefit...". I may understand the "thinking", but which can be the (worse) "acting"? I want to remember You that a (true) customer has only two action that he may do: like Hamlet he may "buy or not to buy" and this end all the availables options.

Posting on a forum saying "They MUST do this" is acting (writing / expressing thoughts is a form of action) and is specifically what I was referring to. If you want to think childish and selfish thoughts, keep them to yourself. If you want to act on those thoughts, you are expected to do so in a way that is no longer childish. We're all adults here, and should comport ourselves as such.

 

Remember that participating in a forum discussion, interacting with employees at conventions and over email, sharing the love of the game by introducing it to others so that they may buy it in the future, talking about it (for better or worse) on social media so that others may hear of it, or writing a review of the game on shopping sites are also actions that can be done that affect a company. And a "true" fan will do more than either buy or not buy a game; this is the way the modern world works, and the existence of this forum, conventions, etc., is all proof of that. Communities exist and consumers don't shop in a vacuum.



#29 fulvio67

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 12:25 PM

Ok, all is clear. But the doubt on Your affiliation with FFG come from the fact that the criminal "MUST" is NOT directed to FFG, but is directed to old customers that are also collectors, and is a consideration "inter nos" that may also try to appease the disappointment for something i have difficult not to name a betrayal. With a list, a collector really know what to expect and the atmosphere of betrayal may decay. This is not childish, and this show that You don't know very well the huge market of the "old but good" games. What i may take as childish is to believe that someone may influence any FFG decision througth this forum, as You seem to think, and precisely for this reason the MUST is directed only to customers. Searching in the past i have found similar events in old Dragon magazines following the reprint of some stuff by TSR in late '80.



#30 griton

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 12:43 PM

FFG MUST announce the list of the monsters that will be recast

the criminal "MUST" is NOT directed to FFG

 

Make what assumptions you want about me "not knowing" markets, etc., but you're contradicting yourself now.

 

 

What i may take as childish is to believe that someone may influence any FFG decision througth this forum, as You seem to think

There's been a number of times when FFG has been shown to read what happens on these forums. Just because they don't respond, doesn't mean they aren't keeping an eye on things. And no, that's not "childish", it's how many company and game forums work.

 

Now how about we get back to the actual point of this thread. I apologize to everyone else for the derailment.



#31 fulvio67

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 01:13 PM

Well, we return to the object of this thread. Which monster You people want to be produced with the assumption that MANY OF US ALREADY HAVE THEM ALL?

 

 

WARNING - You may have a deviant behavior - Remember to submit your thoughts to GRITON for his preventive approval before writing.


Edited by fulvio67, 22 January 2014 - 02:03 AM.


#32 bigObob

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 02:45 PM

I just started playing this a few months ago, and I have already converted a few others to the game during that time. I don't have any of the old stuff, so I am looking forward to these.

The main monster I am looking forward to is the golem.
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#33 Subt1e

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Posted 21 January 2014 - 05:03 PM

I can't wait for the ogre, troll and shade just cause I'd like to have the basics covered.

 

the skeleton archers would be nice too... 

 

from this first set I'm really looking forward to the beastmen.

 

I don't like the "ugly" minis like the naga, plague worm or rat swarm... 


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#34 Zaltyre

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 01:16 PM

It's an exciting direction for expansions, even if it's retreading some of the ground from the conversion kit- the 1E monster minis being the biggest difference, obviously (I bought the conversion kit, but I have most of the hero minis from Runewars.) I'd agree that the 1E converted heroes are a bit unbalanced compared to the 2E heroes, and what I'd most like to see from this expansion/ series of expansions is attention to balancing them, as well as the monsters.


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#35 Safyre

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 07:59 AM

I'm eagerly awaiting but on the fence. I wish they would have announced this before the holidays. I spent quite a bit on Ebay and Amazon for the 1st Ed figures with the 2nd Ed monster cards.

 

 

Edit: Oops, sorry, for part of the back on track:

 

I really don't know much about the 1st Ed. I'd love to see the hero bios like they have for the present heroes so I can get a feel of what kind of characters they are (I know it's not an RPG but it helps me pick what hero I want to play).

 

Since I don't know much of 1st Ed, what I would like to see are some themed releases. For instance, if the OL picks a certain theme or gets bonuses for using a specific theme of creature. A campaign where all the monsters are undead, or elementals, or demonic, or bandits, etc.

 

As it is now, I feel like the OL is just picking the best monster for a specific job regardless whether it would be caught dead in the terrain you're fighting it in. Ok, this is what the OL is doing but I think themes would create more replayability. For instance, running a campaign the first time where the end boss is a dragon but the next time you run that same campaign, the end boss is a powerful lich, or a bandit king, etc. Then put in incentives for the OL to use a high ratio of the monsters that are a part of that theme. Special OL cards that can be picked that have other effects when certain monsters are matched together against the heroes?

 

Eh, too much probably.


Edited by Safyre, 29 January 2014 - 08:19 AM.

- Saf


#36 griton

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 11:26 AM

Since I don't know much of 1st Ed, what I would like to see are some themed releases. For instance, if the OL picks a certain theme or gets bonuses for using a specific theme of creature. A campaign where all the monsters are undead, or elementals, or demonic, or bandits, etc.

 

As it is now, I feel like the OL is just picking the best monster for a specific job regardless whether it would be caught dead in the terrain you're fighting it in. Ok, this is what the OL is doing but I think themes would create more replayability. For instance, running a campaign the first time where the end boss is a dragon but the next time you run that same campaign, the end boss is a powerful lich, or a bandit king, etc. Then put in incentives for the OL to use a high ratio of the monsters that are a part of that theme. Special OL cards that can be picked that have other effects when certain monsters are matched together against the heroes?

 

While it doesn't affect the end-boss, what you're looking for can be found in the Lieutenant Packs. When you pick a Plot Deck from a Lieutenant Pack, you get bonuses to use certain types of monster traits: Splig works well with small monsters and wilderness, Eliza works well with Dark creatures, one of the others (I can't remember off the top of my head) plays well with Magic overlord cards (as opposed to Traps, etc.)



#37 kuffdaddy

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 03:47 PM

i am actually excited that they are re-releasing the first ed stuff.  I have two core and every expansion for 1st ed, but have been replacing the heroes with other minis that I like that maintain the same feel as their original sculpt or card picture.



#38 Safyre

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 04:48 AM

While it doesn't affect the end-boss, what you're looking for can be found in the Lieutenant Packs. When you pick a Plot Deck from a Lieutenant Pack, you get bonuses to use certain types of monster traits: Splig works well with small monsters and wilderness, Eliza works well with Dark creatures, one of the others (I can't remember off the top of my head) plays well with Magic overlord cards (as opposed to Traps, etc.)

 

 

 

Nice, I was already looking at the Lt. packs but wasn't sure and looking here on the forums for some reviews. This information definitely adds a pro to buying them, thanks!


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#39 Beren Eoath

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 01:20 AM

Hmm, I was looking through my Descent Collection and was wondering who is there a classic for me, and who I would like to see made as a new figure.

rom the Heroes: Nanok, Brother Glyr, Landerc the wise, Lord Hawthorne and Master Thorn.

From the monsters: Crypt Dragon, Troll, Ogre, Demon, Ice Wyrm, Skeleton Archers, Kobolds, Ferrox and Golem.

For me they don't have to make a new version of each figure from the 1e, especialy heroes. But the ones above would be nice.



#40 JerseyP

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Posted 19 February 2014 - 07:25 PM

I think its a good idea to reprint monsters that go well with some of the lieutenant packs that focus on traits. I find the power level of the reprints so far to be odd. I think razorwings are really weak, yet the giants are very strong. Maybe they changed some of the stats. I hope they don't reprint skeleton archers, that is unless they upgrade them. There are certain monster groups that are powerfull and give the overlord flexibility, and there are certain one that really could use a resculpt because the original mini is bad. Same with heroes. I actually kind of dislike the chaos beast resculpt. Maybe I have to see it in person.

 

My wishlist: Shade, Medusa, Ferrox, Wendigo, Karnon, Varikas, Runemaster Thorn, Brother Glyr

 

I actually prefer the old art style for the character sheets. They are less cartoonish.






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