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Stamina Question


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#21 MechaBri.Zilla

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 09:45 AM

The important thing to remember with a scrum is that engagements are resolved top down.  So you just break the scrum into it's component engagements, and resolve the one on top first, and continue that way until you get to the bottom of the pile.

 

I hope that helps.  



#22 Timpro

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 11:59 AM

Don't you just love how every FAQ for every game ever always answers things that were really clear to begin with, but never addresses the huge elephants in the room?
I feel like the same happened here because naturally this was not addressed in the FAQ and if there was any rule in the book needed clarification it is clearly this one!

After changing how I handled stamina and wounds twice already, I thought I finally had this all figured out but some special rules and abilities didn't make sense with my most recent interpretation so after reading all this I came to the following conclusions.
So just to clarify:

Scenario [A]
If a disk with toughness 5 and 1 stamina gets hit with 18 damage by the volley gun, it immediately gets 1 wound, right?
If in the same TURN / ROUND (or subsequent ones of course) this same disk then...
1) gets first hit with a magic 3 attack and, two command cards later, gets pinned with impact 3, IT DIES
2) gets hit by a unit of crossbowmen with 6 damage, IT DIES
3) takes 5 damage in the meele phase, IT DIES
Right?

Scenario [B]
If a disk like for example Azhag with counter 4, toughness 5, no damage, and 2 stamina...
1) is being pinned by one disk that is swift 5, one disk that is normal 5, and one disk that is slow 5, and the counter 4 isn't enough to kill any of those pinning disks, IT DIES IMMEDIATELY IN THAT ENGAGEMENT, right?
2) is being pinned by a Bloodthirster, and either a disk with slow 5 or swift 5, and the counter 4 isn't enough to kill any of those pinning disks, IT DIES IMMEDIATELY IN THAT ENGAGEMENT, right?

Edited by Timpro, 07 May 2014 - 12:10 PM.

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#23 MechaBri.Zilla

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 01:06 PM

Looks like you have everything correct, except that you are considering everything one engagement.  In each of those situations, you have multiple engagements.  But they are each a single scrum.

 

One of the important points in all of your examples are the swift and slow keywords which make those attacks happen in different timing brackets.  Where people get confused usually is in a scrum or engagement where there are no swift or slow keywords, but tons of damage output.  In those cases, it doesn't matter how much damage is being dealt in a single engagement, it is only possible to deliver a single wound.  For instance, you could have a toughness 3 disk pinned by three other units doing 3, 4, and 4 damage respectively, but if they don't have swift or slow keywords, the result is a single wound, because that is all a single engagement, i.e. what ties it all together is the single defender.  

 

Here is the rule (in the digital rule book, page 18):

 

"An engagement includes all attacking and defending disks that can be 
traced back to a common attacker or defender in such a way that no 
disk is embattled.
• No disk can be both an attacker and defender in the same 
engagement. 
• A disk must deal its melee damage, if able; it cannot choose to 
refrain from an engagement.
• Damage persists from engagement to engagement.
• If a new engagement occurs as a result of another engagement being 
resolved, players cannot resolve the new engagement during the same 
melee phase. This most commonly occurs when an embattled disk is 
removed as a casualty, allowing the disk on top of it to pin the disk that 
was below it"

 

Magic and ranged attacks all happen within their own timing bracket, and damage is applied immediately.  Meaning that if you have a toughness 5 disk carrying 3 damage and he gets hit by 2 more from ranged or magic attacks, then he is wounded right away, if that same attack did 10 damage instead, the disk would take a wound and the excess damage would be removed.  Additional ranged/magic attacks that occur after that (ie, come from a different source) then start the process over.

 

I hope this helps.



#24 Timpro

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 03:29 PM

Thanks for the response!
I don't see, however, where you see multiple engagements. Both my examples in scenario B are one engagement each, with each involving multiple disks. But just like you quoted, it's one engagement each nevertheless. Or am what did you mean?

#25 MechaBri.Zilla

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 04:02 PM

Thanks for the response!
I don't see, however, where you see multiple engagements. Both my examples in scenario B are one engagement each, with each involving multiple disks. But just like you quoted, it's one engagement each nevertheless. Or am what did you mean?

 

Crud...  Helps if I read a bit closer, huh?  

 

You're right, these are single engagements, A) just involves ranged/magic damage prior to the melee phase and B) includes the swift and slow keywords. Sorry about that.

 

So back to the actual answer to your question... Yes, you understand everything correctly as far as I can tell.  Sorry for all the extra gobeldy-goop.  I've just seen so many of these questions about damage timing that I expect certain questions when I start reading.


Edited by MechaBri.Zilla, 07 May 2014 - 04:02 PM.


#26 Timpro

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 04:22 PM

Awesome, thank you! And no worries, it happens to me too

#27 Brother Horus

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Posted 08 May 2014 - 08:42 AM

In my opinion scrums look complicated but are in fact quite simple as long as you remember that every combat is a separate engagement, so unless a disk specifies otherwise, each disk can do one attack and one counter attack. So if A attacks B and B survives B is free to attack C. If C does enough damage to wound B or kill it then B would be removed along with other casualties. If A was killed it would of been removed before B attacked C.

Makes sense ? :-)

#28 aniedrig

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 12:14 PM

If you resolve scrums one engagement at a time from top to bottom and resolve engagements in 3 Phases each, then handeling scrums, engagements and stamina is actually not that complicated. Here is how I resolve scrums:

 

 

Scrum

 

Engagement 1 (top most layer, if you will)

 

  • Phase 1 (Swift Attacks/Counters):

- apply all attack and/or counter damage with the swift attribute simultaneously (if any)

- if damage is equal to or larger than the toughness of a unit, remove all damage (and excess) from that unit and replace it with a wound token (or remove the unit if defeated)

 

  • Phase 2 (Normal Attacks/Counters):

- apply all normal attack and/or counter damage simultaneously (if any)

(only if units did not already deal damage during Phase 1, of course, since units are only allowed to deal damage once during one engagement!)

- if damage is equal to or larger than the toughness of a unit, remove all damage (and excess) from that unit and replace it with a wound token (or remove the unit if defeated)

 

  • Phase 3 (Slow Attacks/Counters):

- apply all attack and/or counter damage with the slow attribute simultaneously (if any)

(again, only if units did not already deal damage during Phase 1 and 2, of course, since units are only allowed to deal damage once during one engagement!)

- if damage is equal to or larger than the toughness of a unit, remove all damage (and excess) from that unit and replace it with a wound token (or remove the unit if defeated)

 

  • Proceed to the next engagement (potentially within the same scrum)

 

Engagement 2 (next layer)

 

  • Repeat phases 1, 2 and 3
  • Continue until all engagements are resolved

 

 

Conclusions:

 

There are two possibile ways a unit with stamina can receive more than 1 wound tokens during one melee phase:

 

1) A unit can receive more than 1 wound token, if it receives damage equal to or more than its toughness in several separate phases of an egagement. This is only possible, if it is engaged with more than one opponent disk and the opponent disks have at least two of the attributes swift, normal or slow.

 

2) A unit can receive more than 1 wound token, if it receives damage equal to or more than its toughness during one engagement, and then again during a subsequent engagement, within the same scrum.

 

 

 

I believe it is MUCH simpler to handle engagements, scrums and stamina if you resolve engagements in 3 Phases and remember that wounds are applied at the end of each of these phases (if any):

  • Phase 1 (Swift Attacks/Counters)
  • Phase 2 (Normal Attacks/Counters)
  • Phase 3 (Slow Attacks/Counters)

 

Oh, and by the way, ranged attacks are separate events/phases entirely and wounds are applied (if any) after resolving them individually.


Edited by aniedrig, 27 July 2014 - 03:52 AM.





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