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non space marine dreadnoughts


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#1 lord inquisitor Iannise

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 04:44 PM

Do they exist? if so who and how does someone become a dreadnought  



#2 Brother Orpheo

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 05:03 PM

Penitent Engines, Wraithguard/lords, Talos Engines, Killa Kans and Deff Dreads, and Dreadnoughts all fill a "war walker" niche. The closest you'll get is Terminator Armour (aka Tactical Dreadnought Armour), and you'll have to be pretty special in someone's eyes to get access to that. 


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#3 Lynata

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 05:13 PM

Probably depends on your interpretation of the fluff, and the stuff you read.

 

sterndread.jpg

 

;)

 

That being said, Brother Orpheo already listed a good number of common alternatives, of which at least two or three should be fairly common knowledge to most people somewhat accustomed to the IP. :)


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#4 Kshatriya

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 05:27 PM

Penitent engines are the closest for a mortal. Basically be a terrible heretic, get caught by the Ecclesiarchy, and they lobotomize you, amputate your limbs, graft you into an eviscerator-equipped war walker, keep you nice and drugged and soothed most of the time then amp up the aggression center of your brain with battle hymns when they need you to break an enemy defense line. Sounds great right?

 

Talos engines, well, that's quite a bit worse for you to be honest, unless you're fond of the pointier, blacker culture of Eldar.

 

As to dreadnoughts…no offense, but mortals are not worth keeping alive with precious, rare, ancient technology like that. Ask again when you're 400 years old and have killed millions of foes in hand-to-hand combat.



#5 Brother Orpheo

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 05:41 PM

Probably depends on your interpretation of the fluff, and the stuff you read.

 

sterndread.jpg

 

;)

 

That being said, Brother Orpheo already listed a good number of common alternatives, of which at least two or three should be fairly common knowledge to most people somewhat accustomed to the IP. :)

Wow. I'd forgotten all about that.

 

I miss bitz  :(


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#6 lord inquisitor Iannise

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 10:11 PM

Penitent engines are the closest for a mortal. Basically be a terrible heretic, get caught by the Ecclesiarchy, and they lobotomize you, amputate your limbs, graft you into an eviscerator-equipped war walker, keep you nice and drugged and soothed most of the time then amp up the aggression center of your brain with battle hymns when they need you to break an enemy defense line. Sounds great right?

 

Talos engines, well, that's quite a bit worse for you to be honest, unless you're fond of the pointier, blacker culture of Eldar.

 

As to dreadnoughts…no offense, but mortals are not worth keeping alive with precious, rare, ancient technology like that. Ask again when you're 400 years old and have killed millions of foes in hand-to-hand combat.

well when everything that makes an Astartes an Astartes is burned/cute/shot/eaten off how are they any better then mortals? they would make the same dread i think? 



#7 Lynata

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 10:50 PM

Depends on what you read - in some novels, and I think in FFG's RPGs, too, Space Marines exist on a whole other plane of awesomeness. In Dark Heresy, apparently anyone but a Marine fights with "civilian" bolters and not even the Inquisition is able to procure technology as mighty as that used by the Legiones Astartes.

 

It's not a version of the background I find particularly appealing, but that is of course a matter of personal preferences. I think it boils down to whether you'd rather see the setting of 40k as an epic tale focused on the mythical quests of immortal demigods a la the Horus Heresy novels, or more like a gritty but living universe where the Space Marines are not the center of attention but rather a mismanaged relic of a better time (whose biological life expectancy is "only" two to three times that of an average man). Both are valid approaches.


Edited by Lynata, 08 January 2014 - 10:52 PM.

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#8 Green Knight

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 02:45 AM

I had some crazy ratlings create a makeshift dreadnought that the players had to fight...lots of fun.



#9 Lynata

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 06:29 AM

That sounds ... orky.  :D


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#10 Green Knight

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 07:55 AM

That sounds ... orky.  :D

 

Worse...it's like having ordinary ratlings in the pantry...only when you try to chase them away with a broom they have a dreadnought hiding in the basement :D



#11 Kshatriya

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 10:31 AM

 

Penitent engines are the closest for a mortal. Basically be a terrible heretic, get caught by the Ecclesiarchy, and they lobotomize you, amputate your limbs, graft you into an eviscerator-equipped war walker, keep you nice and drugged and soothed most of the time then amp up the aggression center of your brain with battle hymns when they need you to break an enemy defense line. Sounds great right?

 

Talos engines, well, that's quite a bit worse for you to be honest, unless you're fond of the pointier, blacker culture of Eldar.

 

As to dreadnoughts…no offense, but mortals are not worth keeping alive with precious, rare, ancient technology like that. Ask again when you're 400 years old and have killed millions of foes in hand-to-hand combat.

well when everything that makes an Astartes an Astartes is burned/cute/shot/eaten off how are they any better then mortals? they would make the same dread i think? 

 

The Astarte in question would still have centuries of battle experience as one of the most effective killing machines that exists in the Milky Way Galaxy, having served in Tactical, Assault, and Devastator roles during his career and fighting on hundreds if not thousands of different worlds against potentially hundreds of different types of foe. Few things can claim the same, mostly Temple Assassins, and it would make zero sense to inter a puissant master of stealth kills into a massive, clunky destructionbot.

 

Also, infrastructure. The Chapter cares in a particular way about each one of its Astartes. Virtually all other institutions hold their fighting men and women as very replaceable.


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#12 Kshatriya

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 10:32 AM

In Dark Heresy, apparently anyone but a Marine fights with "civilian" bolters and not even the Inquisition is able to procure technology as mighty as that used by the Legiones Astartes.

Black Industries mangled that part of the IP and FFG hasn't seen fit to really correct those issues.



#13 Adeptus-B

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 02:35 PM

 

I miss bitz  :(

 

 

Me, too.

 

Do they exist? if so who and how does someone become a dreadnought  

 

Are you looking for a 100% true Space Marine Dreadnought? If so, then no.

 

Or are you just looking for some kind of butt-kicking walker? If so, then yes:

 

565f09157b9bc7ac9b8240dcb28564ce.jpg

 

-but they are always custom-built or ancient relics, so the character using it will need some serious pull, either with the Echlesiarchy or the Adeptus Mechanicus.

 

And if a mortally wounded character is to be interred inside it a la a SM Dreadnought, then it goes without saying that your campaign will take an unusual turn: in addition to Stealth now being 100% impossible, the character will not be able to fit through any opening smaller than a garage door...



#14 lord inquisitor Iannise

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 06:15 PM

 

 

Penitent engines are the closest for a mortal. Basically be a terrible heretic, get caught by the Ecclesiarchy, and they lobotomize you, amputate your limbs, graft you into an eviscerator-equipped war walker, keep you nice and drugged and soothed most of the time then amp up the aggression center of your brain with battle hymns when they need you to break an enemy defense line. Sounds great right?

 

Talos engines, well, that's quite a bit worse for you to be honest, unless you're fond of the pointier, blacker culture of Eldar.

 

As to dreadnoughts…no offense, but mortals are not worth keeping alive with precious, rare, ancient technology like that. Ask again when you're 400 years old and have killed millions of foes in hand-to-hand combat.

well when everything that makes an Astartes an Astartes is burned/cute/shot/eaten off how are they any better then mortals? they would make the same dread i think? 

 

The Astarte in question would still have centuries of battle experience as one of the most effective killing machines that exists in the Milky Way Galaxy, having served in Tactical, Assault, and Devastator roles during his career and fighting on hundreds if not thousands of different worlds against potentially hundreds of different types of foe. Few things can claim the same, mostly Temple Assassins, and it would make zero sense to inter a puissant master of stealth kills into a massive, clunky destructionbot.

 

Also, infrastructure. The Chapter cares in a particular way about each one of its Astartes. Virtually all other institutions hold their fighting men and women as very replaceable.

 

isn't cipher cain like 400 or somthing?  :D



#15 WilliamAsher

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 06:16 PM

While not quite the power of a Dreadnaught, the Thallax Conversion is possible for severely injured troops with excellent Mechanicum connections (http://warhammer40k....om/wiki/Thallax).  Note that it is questionable if this is really available still.  They are powerful, but not nearly a Dreadnaught.  The only other legitimate option is a Knight (http://warhammer40k....ki/Knight_Baron).  Knights are rare, but there are 18 of them in the Calaxis sector.

 

For the more heretekal group you might consider refitting an Imperial Robot (http://warhammer40k....Imperial_Robots) with the character's brain in a sealed case kept alive via a Sarcosan Wave Generator (http://warhammer40k...._Wave_Generator).  Of course, my players are not aware of the fact that one of their enemies is outfitting a small force of such things...


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#16 lord inquisitor Iannise

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 08:47 PM

While not quite the power of a Dreadnaught, the Thallax Conversion is possible for severely injured troops with excellent Mechanicum connections (http://warhammer40k....om/wiki/Thallax).  Note that it is questionable if this is really available still.  They are powerful, but not nearly a Dreadnaught.  The only other legitimate option is a Knight (http://warhammer40k....ki/Knight_Baron).  Knights are rare, but there are 18 of them in the Calaxis sector.

 

For the more heretekal group you might consider refitting an Imperial Robot (http://warhammer40k....Imperial_Robots) with the character's brain in a sealed case kept alive via a Sarcosan Wave Generator (http://warhammer40k...._Wave_Generator).  Of course, my players are not aware of the fact that one of their enemies is outfitting a small force of such things...

Now thats what i've been looking for kudos Asher :)



#17 Cymbel

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 07:45 PM

In the IH book, there is something called "The Rite of Setesh" which intombs the body in a non combat dreadnaught like thing. You can work from that as a base, add more armor, weapons, whatever.



#18 Askil

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 01:11 AM

Bionic resurrection also exists, the brain and any salvagable internal organs are removed (either along with the torso or not depending on condition) and fitted into a the closest thing in 40k to robocop and depending on how your new body is built you could pass for anything from a human with expensive bionics to a trundling murder servitor.

 

Needless to say this is hardly an ideal existance and only the most mentally resilient people survive the process of losing their entire body, their sense of touch and seeing somehig they don`t recognise in the mirror with any of their marbles.

 

Not to mention the staggeringly vast learning curve of operating the new body or the high chance it just won`t work, your brain will die and degrade and anything they bring back after that might only be "you" from a "what name should we put on the tombstone?" point of view.



#19 Lynata

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 01:30 AM

Basically ... :P


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#20 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 11 January 2014 - 08:54 AM

The Inquisition can get weapons as powerful as the Astartes. Heretics in Black Crusade can after all. (In fact, Legion and normal plasma weapons have the same availability.)

 

They just have a -20 to fire them and count them as one weapon category larger. Since they're really big.* (Meaning that in the case of bolters there isn't much point, since an Astartes boltgun is practically the same as a mortal heavy bolter, leaving out different rates of fire. So they're both heavy weapons doing about the same damage -- 1d10+9 Pen 4 vs. 1d10+8 Pen 5 -- except that you have a -20 with the former since you can't get your little fingers around the triggering mechanisms.)

 

*Which, alongside the increased weight, should be a clue as to why they do more damage.


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 11 January 2014 - 09:41 AM.





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