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Scaling mobs or keep as is


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#41 Cogniczar

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 11:23 AM

DH is _low-level_ action-oriented (as is CoC for the most part). The kind of action that.you see in pulp detective novels and the film noir that I keep mentioning, NOT the kind of action that you see in the heroic genres (like D&D or Deathwatch, or like a billion more successful Hollywood films :) ).

 

Ultimately, I can't agree with you. Not a single adventure module reminds me or bears an resemblence to the film noir i'm aware of (such as the Maltese Falcon, A Life at Stake). These sort movies are very slow, well developed, and driven completely by dialogue - something that doesn't translate to the game modules where there are countless scenes of armed conflict. 

 

I guess it's best to just agree to disagree. 

 

And Ohme gerd people are disagreeing. D: =D lol



#42 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 12:10 PM

 

DH is _low-level_ action-oriented (as is CoC for the most part). The kind of action that.you see in pulp detective novels and the film noir that I keep mentioning, NOT the kind of action that you see in the heroic genres (like D&D or Deathwatch, or like a billion more successful Hollywood films :) ).

 

Ultimately, I can't agree with you. Not a single adventure module reminds me or bears an resemblence to the film noir i'm aware of (such as the Maltese Falcon, A Life at Stake). These sort movies are very slow, well developed, and driven completely by dialogue - something that doesn't translate to the game modules where there are countless scenes of armed conflict. 

 

I guess it's best to just agree to disagree. 

 

And Ohme gerd people are disagreeing. D: =D lol

 

 

OMG someone has a different opinion than me! This cannot stand.

 

I'm using "film noir" loosely, but I think that Tattered Fates is roughly in that line, as is City of the Damned. BTW it is perfectly possible to get through Tattered Fates without much on the way of combat at all, if you do it right. This is NOT the case with Apostasy Gambit with its computer-game-like big boss fights.

 

DH is more at the level of... goddammit, what was that movie in the late 80s about the private detective who finds out that he is working for the devil? Mickey Rourke was in it? There are lots of films in this genre although I am havin g problems thinking of one at the moment :)..

 

Anyway -- gunfights with gangers, enforcers, cultists, things on that level. An actual daemon should be a big deal.



#43 Cogniczar

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 12:38 PM

LOL I do enjoy our back and forths Bogi, so hopefully my playfullness isn't being read negatively. 

 

While I certainly agree the Film Noir is a big inspiration, I just don't agree it's the focal point. As a GM, I've run plenty of games where combat was based solely on Player reactions, and I agree Tatterred Fates -can- almost be run that way (except for the red cages, where you start off in a combat situation, and end scene with the main antagonist - the Widower). The break out fight between Obediah and the cultist, as well.

 

I know which you film your talking about and dangit, I can't recall the name of it either. Certainly I get the vibe, but like I said - I think the game itself lends itself to quite a few genres - Action Thriller, Survival Horror, FIlm Noir to mention just a few. Edge of Darkness absolutely falls under the Film Noir genre, completely, with just the right touch of terror. 

 

I'm not completely aware of the Apostasy Gambit as I'm currently being run through it as a player. I'll have to comment on that later - so far I've been dealt the Black Sepulchre scenario and haven't been grossly impressed by it! Seems sort of... rail roady to me. 



#44 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 01:00 PM

Aha! Angel Heart!

 

Seven would also work well in DH if slightly modified.


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 13 February 2014 - 01:01 PM.

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#45 Librarian Astelan

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 07:06 AM

Ultimately, I can't agree with you. Not a single adventure module reminds me or bears an resemblence to the film noir i'm aware of (such as the Maltese Falcon, A Life at Stake). These sort movies are very slow, well developed, and driven completely by dialogue - something that doesn't translate to the game modules where there are countless scenes of armed conflict. 

 

I support this view. If it was only a game of dialogue and investigation (which admittedly is a big part of the game), the core rulebook wouldn't include a ludicrous number of combat orientated talents and the chapter on combat would be limited to: how to aim and shoot.



#46 bogi_khaosa

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:39 PM

I did not say it was only a game of dialogue and investigation. I said it was (designed as) a horror game of investigation and generally low-powered combat.

 

Kind of like CoC actually, albeit with somewhat higher player survival rate.

 

You can, however, get through Tattered Fates without firing a shot BTW. One thing you'll notice about those first DH adventures are that they are designed so the big nemesis is not supposed to be defeated in combat. There is always a method to defeating him involving secret knowledge.


Edited by bogi_khaosa, 28 February 2014 - 01:40 PM.

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#47 Visitor Q

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:01 AM

Some really well made interesting points in this thread from different points of view

 

@bogi_khaosa

I agree that DH has been massively influenced by Call of Cthulhu and the focus is on investigation. 

 

Not sure that I would necessarily call it film noir as such as I think the characters are more intense and driven rather than the ambivalence that characterises many film noir characters.  There is also far less chance of romance or simply erotisim being present in a typical DH session than is a key feature of film noir.  Though maybe I am playing with wrong group lol (I have images now of everyone else playing in groups which have at least one player who is a modern incarnation of Rita Hayworth or Marlene Dietrich :wub: ).  That said I do know what your getting at if the film noir reference.  DH is certainly allows the PCs to play anti heroes and even villians (albeit ones facing worse threats). 

 

Where I would disagree is that I think DH also allows for a genre that is outright action.  Sure things like melta guns and bolt guns should be out of reach for players most of the time but just look at die hard or Lethal Weapon.  Those franchises had weapons that barely went beyond autopistols and replace Street hoods and European terrorists with Hive gangers and chaos cultists and you have some pretty interesting DH sessions right there.

 

With regard to the OP given that I am the kind of GM who is happy to throw a Eversor Assassin at rank 2 or 3 players then I thin it only fair that NPCs don't scale unless there is a specific reason for them to.  What you can potentially change is their weapon loadout which could change in response to the PCs.

 

You can also use a system of scaling which isn't too unfair and represents ability

 

so a 'experienced' bad guy might have +5 Bs OR Ws and +3 wounds

 

'Veteran sgt level badguy +10 Ws OR Bs and +5 Ws or Bs +3 wounds +5 Ag

 

Lt or 'champion' level bad guy +10 Ws and Bs +5 wounds and +10 ag.  Possibly one or two extra talents

 

I would give the PCs fair warning though, i.e maybe wearing different uniforms or obviously giving orders.  I wouldn't simply have all the hive gangers on Volg suddenly gain a level in badass.






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